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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Should the international community sanction Israel over settler violence in West Bank?

763 replies

FloralDeerPattern · 19/03/2026 20:03

The problem of Israeli terrorism is getting worse and worse. Just over the past few weeks amongst other things Israeli terrorists have killed multiple people, commited sexual assault, beaten and threatened to rape young Palestinian girls, continually attacked the residents and property of the only remaining fully Christian town in the West Bank, stolen 100s of sheep from the Bedouin community, beaten activists who are there to provide a protective presence to Palestinians, set fire to property.

Palestinians don't have the right to defend themselves from this violent, rapidly escalating Israeli terrorism. They can't arrest and detain the Israeli terrorists. They are sitting ducks with no means of protecting themselves from beatings and sexual violence. Is it time that the international community steps in and sanctions Israel until they can control their obvious terrorism problem? What else can be done to try and protect innocent people from this escalating Israeli violence?

OP posts:
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43
OpenScroller · Yesterday 18:18

Newbutoldfather · Yesterday 17:33

@OpenScroller ,

I speak to one person IRL who is similar to you. They literally see one side of the story and accept it without any reservations.

I’m kind of guessing these real experts are Richard Kemp and John Spencer? There don’t seem to be too many of them, and others challenge them.

The problem of debating someone like you is you see any experts such as the UN, Medecin sans frontieres etc etc as biased and antisemitic (Jew haters I imagine is what you call them) and you will desperately seek any straw you can to discredit them.

And you will wilfully ignore the likes of Smotrich and Ben G’vir and their open advocacy of ethnic cleansing. You probably think they are ‘bad apples’ despite the fact they are full ministers of state.

If I am wrong about any of the above, please let me know which ones? And then we could have an honest basis for discussion.

You forget Andrew Fox and these -

The-October-7-War-Press-Release.pdf

John Spencer is probably the foremost expert to give an opinion on this war considering his credentials in urban warfare. Who has challenged him and what were their credentials?

Yes, it is a shame there are not more real experts giving an opinion but realistically that is obviously due to concerns about a backlash.

I don't see the opinions of the experts above platformed in MSM as a counter to the claims of genocide, do you? Why do you think that is?

I admit to being shocked on researching the bias of the UN and NGOs operating in Gaza, which I had no idea about before the war, and there is plenty to discredit them. I haven't sought it, the evidence is there!

It makes sense with the NGOs anyway, as they need to be in Hamas's favour to operate there safely. Kind of explains why doctors 'testifying' about the kids they allegedly SAW being sniped by the IDF, didn't see or mention Hamas at all despite the fact we know they are in the hospitals.

Don't really have an opinion on Smotrich and G'vir as I haven't researched them enough or Israeli internal politics and infighting. My opinion of the 'settler violence' in the West Bank is that it's definitely not one sided though.

I was referring to the way the war in Gaza has actually been CONDUCTED and I don't think either of them have had much of a part to play in that have they?

Why do you think I 'literally see one side of the story and accept it without any reservations'? Do you think I have skin in the game, I'm getting paid, a bot?

Maybe I just see thing with a bit more clarity than you because I came into this with zero biases or preconceived perceptions.

https://jinsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/The-October-7-War-Press-Release.pdf

Newbutoldfather · Yesterday 20:03

‘John Spencer is probably the foremost expert to give an opinion on this war considering his credentials in urban warfare. Who has challenged him and what were their credentials?’

What access do you think he got and who controlled it?

Here is an actual U.S military targeting expert who forensically destroys Spencer’s arguments.

www.wesjbryant.com/opeds/we-must-face-the-hard-truth-in-gaza

‘don't see the opinions of the experts above platformed in MSM as a counter to the claims of genocide, do you? Why do you think that is?’

I have seen them in MSM but they don’t really pass the smell test right now. Just look at Gaza and see what Israel have done, and how they have treated the civilians.

Also, to me, once Israel refused to let any journalists in, I knew it wasn’t going to be pretty. Of course, they called it safety, but these war journalists are happy to risk their lives and have covered virtually all modern wars.

‘I admit to being shocked on researching the bias of the UN and NGOs operating in Gaza, which I had no idea about before the war, and there is plenty to discredit them. I haven't sought it, the evidence is there!

It makes sense with the NGOs anyway, as they need to be in Hamas's favour to operate there safely. Kind of explains why doctors 'testifying' about the kids they allegedly SAW being sniped by the IDF, didn't see or mention Hamas at all despite the fact we know they are in the hospitals.’

How did you ‘research’ the bias? These organisations are massive, thousands to tens of thousands of people. Of course you will find some Hamas sympathisers within them. But the vast majority are just doing their jobs.

And, as for medicin sans frontieres, they are doctors who volunteer. Do you think all of them collectively lied about what they saw? All bad witnesses? Because I haven’t seen a single report from a doctor denying that there was real
hunger among the civilians in Gaza.

‘Don't really have an opinion on Smotrich and G'vir as I haven't researched them enough or Israeli internal politics and infighting. My opinion of the 'settler violence' in the West Bank is that it's definitely not one sided though.
I was referring to the way the war in Gaza has actually been CONDUCTED and I don't think either of them have had much of a part to play in that have they?’

So you have researched in detail how they fought and the bias of NGOs working in Gaza, but not two prominent ministers, much covered in the MSM, who have actively called for settling Gaza and the West Bank?

And you don’t think that the war aims feed into the way it is fought?

‘Why do you think I 'literally see one side of the story and accept it without any reservations'? Do you think I have skin in the game, I'm getting paid, a bot?’

No, I doubt the above. I do think that most of your ‘research’ comes from your social media feed though, that confirms your existing bias. None of your posts even acknowledge that Israel could be meaningfully culpable in any way.

‘Maybe I just see thing with a bit more clarity than you because I came into this with zero biases or preconceived perceptions.’

What is my bias then? I think my posts are pretty balanced.

Original poster
FloralDeerPattern · Yesterday 21:22

Newbutoldfather · Yesterday 16:08

@FloralDeerPattern ,

You are ducking what you believe about 7/10. Do you wholeheartedly condemn it and all who participated? Do you believe it was some kind of military escalation?

‘At what point did it stop becoming a 'show of solidarity' and start to become suspicious and disappointing? Not when the Israeli Defence Minister announced he was going to start starving every man, woman and child and began bombing bakeries, that was understandable. Was it when hospitals were being leveled and premature babies left to die? Whole apartment blocks full of sleeping children reduced to craters? When foreign aid workers were killed? When rescue workers were lined up and shot and buried in a shallow grave? When a little girl begged for her life alone in a car with her dead relatives only to be shot at 100s of times? Where was the line when it stopped becoming solidarity and became something else?’

I think that is a fair question which I was also asking myself.

I think when it became clear that the war objectives went beyond the return of the hostages and the destruction of Hamas, which are totally acceptable military goals. Once Hamas was severely degraded and Israel was denying food and medicine to enter Gaza (not initially, but later).

It is hard (maybe impossible) to put a moment on it. I think governments had the same issues. For Israel to try to destroy Hamas and get the hostages back was right and proper. Their use of 2,000 pound bombs and the ‘scorpion protocol’, their treatment of POWs and their seeming permanent occupation of captured territories and what looks very much like ethnic cleansing is clearly not right and no one should be waving Israeli flags now.

I'm not ducking at all, nobody asked what I thought of the Hamas attack? Of course I condemn it, I could never sympathise with violence directed at civillians. It has never been a military operation from Gaza, so I don't see how it could it have been at the beginning of this current escalation. Palestine doesn't have a military to launch any kind of military anything be that defence or offence.

I don't think anyone could deny that Oct 7 was the beginning of the current escalation can they? When did the escalation begin if not then because there is no denying that there was one?

OP posts:
Original poster
FloralDeerPattern · Today 17:10

British 'charities' funneling money into illegal settlements and entrenching their position in the occupied West Bank. Ed Miliband addressed the advertising of property in occupied territory that was happening when he introduced the sanctions. That is now prohibited. Will these 'charities' be properly addressed too? It's quite sickening to think that British people are funding illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing and that this has been allowed to happen unchecked for so long.

www.declassifieduk.org/the-uk-charities-sending-nearly-2-million-to-illegal-settlements/

OP posts:
OpenScroller · Today 17:42

FloralDeerPattern · Yesterday 21:22

I'm not ducking at all, nobody asked what I thought of the Hamas attack? Of course I condemn it, I could never sympathise with violence directed at civillians. It has never been a military operation from Gaza, so I don't see how it could it have been at the beginning of this current escalation. Palestine doesn't have a military to launch any kind of military anything be that defence or offence.

I don't think anyone could deny that Oct 7 was the beginning of the current escalation can they? When did the escalation begin if not then because there is no denying that there was one?

Show quote history

You really should research stuff before repeating nonsense if you want to avoid looking like a fool. Hamas may not have air power (thankfully) but it is regarded as having substantial military capability for a non-state armed group -

  • Manpower: Estimates put Hamas's pre war force at roughly 30,000–40,000 fighters. It had organized battalion-level formations rather than being merely a loose collection of guerrillas.
  • Specialized assault forces and training: The October 7 operation involved coordinated infantry, rocket, drone, maritime and airborne/paraglider elements. CSIS described it as an evolution in Hamas's capabilities and tactics, while the Congressional Research Service described the operation as demonstrating a further evolution toward complex, multi-axis infantry operations.
  • Small arms: AK-pattern assault rifles, various machine guns, pistols, and sniper rifles.
  • Rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs): Used against Israeli vehicles, buildings, and defensive positions.
  • Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs): Including systems such as the Kornet, which can engage armored vehicles at considerably greater range than an RPG.
  • Rockets: A large inventory of locally manufactured and imported rockets, including short- and longer-range systems. These formed the major part of the opening barrage on October 7.
  • Mortars: Used for indirect fire against Israeli positions and communities near Gaza.
  • Drones: Commercial-style quadcopters and other unmanned aircraft were used for reconnaissance and attacks, including against border surveillance and defensive infrastructure.
  • Explosives: Improvised explosive devices, grenades, and breaching charges were used during the assault on the Gaza border barrier.
  • Airborne infiltration equipment: Hamas fighters used paragliders/paramotors to cross the border in the initial attack.
  • Maritime equipment: Small boats and other equipment were used by Hamas naval/commando elements to attempt infiltration from the sea.
  • Tunnels: Not technically a weapon, but an important military capability—Hamas had an extensive underground network used for movement, storage, command and protection.
  • Weapons training and instruction in missile/rocket production. CFR reports that Hamas developed greater capacity to manufacture its own missiles after training with the IRGC and Iranian-supported groups.
  • Irregular/asymmetric warfare: Iran's Quds Force specializes in training partner forces in tactics suited to fighting technologically superior conventional militaries. CSIS describes Quds Force activities as including training, advising, equipping and funding partner forces.
  • Training outside Gaza: There have been reports of Hamas personnel being sent to Iran for training. CFR reports an estimate of roughly 500 Hamas fighters trained in Iran in preparation for the October 7 attacks, although that figure and the precise purpose of the training should be treated as a reported estimate rather than an established fact.
  • Transfer of expertise: Iranian assistance wasn't necessarily just "Iranian instructors teaching Hamas." Hamas developed substantial indigenous capabilities, including its own rocket production, while benefiting from Iranian technical knowledge and assistance.

Propaganda Arm
Hamas developed its own sophisticated propaganda apparatus while operating within a long-standing Iranian support relationship that included training, guidance, technology and communications expertise.

Squeezingwildoranges · Today 18:16

OpenScroller · Today 17:42

You really should research stuff before repeating nonsense if you want to avoid looking like a fool. Hamas may not have air power (thankfully) but it is regarded as having substantial military capability for a non-state armed group -

  • Manpower: Estimates put Hamas's pre war force at roughly 30,000–40,000 fighters. It had organized battalion-level formations rather than being merely a loose collection of guerrillas.
  • Specialized assault forces and training: The October 7 operation involved coordinated infantry, rocket, drone, maritime and airborne/paraglider elements. CSIS described it as an evolution in Hamas's capabilities and tactics, while the Congressional Research Service described the operation as demonstrating a further evolution toward complex, multi-axis infantry operations.
  • Small arms: AK-pattern assault rifles, various machine guns, pistols, and sniper rifles.
  • Rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs): Used against Israeli vehicles, buildings, and defensive positions.
  • Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs): Including systems such as the Kornet, which can engage armored vehicles at considerably greater range than an RPG.
  • Rockets: A large inventory of locally manufactured and imported rockets, including short- and longer-range systems. These formed the major part of the opening barrage on October 7.
  • Mortars: Used for indirect fire against Israeli positions and communities near Gaza.
  • Drones: Commercial-style quadcopters and other unmanned aircraft were used for reconnaissance and attacks, including against border surveillance and defensive infrastructure.
  • Explosives: Improvised explosive devices, grenades, and breaching charges were used during the assault on the Gaza border barrier.
  • Airborne infiltration equipment: Hamas fighters used paragliders/paramotors to cross the border in the initial attack.
  • Maritime equipment: Small boats and other equipment were used by Hamas naval/commando elements to attempt infiltration from the sea.
  • Tunnels: Not technically a weapon, but an important military capability—Hamas had an extensive underground network used for movement, storage, command and protection.
  • Weapons training and instruction in missile/rocket production. CFR reports that Hamas developed greater capacity to manufacture its own missiles after training with the IRGC and Iranian-supported groups.
  • Irregular/asymmetric warfare: Iran's Quds Force specializes in training partner forces in tactics suited to fighting technologically superior conventional militaries. CSIS describes Quds Force activities as including training, advising, equipping and funding partner forces.
  • Training outside Gaza: There have been reports of Hamas personnel being sent to Iran for training. CFR reports an estimate of roughly 500 Hamas fighters trained in Iran in preparation for the October 7 attacks, although that figure and the precise purpose of the training should be treated as a reported estimate rather than an established fact.
  • Transfer of expertise: Iranian assistance wasn't necessarily just "Iranian instructors teaching Hamas." Hamas developed substantial indigenous capabilities, including its own rocket production, while benefiting from Iranian technical knowledge and assistance.

Propaganda Arm
Hamas developed its own sophisticated propaganda apparatus while operating within a long-standing Iranian support relationship that included training, guidance, technology and communications expertise.

Show quote history

Imagine if we had to make a similar list for the IDF. We'd be typing for weeks.

Original poster
FloralDeerPattern · Today 18:46

OpenScroller · Today 17:42

You really should research stuff before repeating nonsense if you want to avoid looking like a fool. Hamas may not have air power (thankfully) but it is regarded as having substantial military capability for a non-state armed group -

  • Manpower: Estimates put Hamas's pre war force at roughly 30,000–40,000 fighters. It had organized battalion-level formations rather than being merely a loose collection of guerrillas.
  • Specialized assault forces and training: The October 7 operation involved coordinated infantry, rocket, drone, maritime and airborne/paraglider elements. CSIS described it as an evolution in Hamas's capabilities and tactics, while the Congressional Research Service described the operation as demonstrating a further evolution toward complex, multi-axis infantry operations.
  • Small arms: AK-pattern assault rifles, various machine guns, pistols, and sniper rifles.
  • Rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs): Used against Israeli vehicles, buildings, and defensive positions.
  • Anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs): Including systems such as the Kornet, which can engage armored vehicles at considerably greater range than an RPG.
  • Rockets: A large inventory of locally manufactured and imported rockets, including short- and longer-range systems. These formed the major part of the opening barrage on October 7.
  • Mortars: Used for indirect fire against Israeli positions and communities near Gaza.
  • Drones: Commercial-style quadcopters and other unmanned aircraft were used for reconnaissance and attacks, including against border surveillance and defensive infrastructure.
  • Explosives: Improvised explosive devices, grenades, and breaching charges were used during the assault on the Gaza border barrier.
  • Airborne infiltration equipment: Hamas fighters used paragliders/paramotors to cross the border in the initial attack.
  • Maritime equipment: Small boats and other equipment were used by Hamas naval/commando elements to attempt infiltration from the sea.
  • Tunnels: Not technically a weapon, but an important military capability—Hamas had an extensive underground network used for movement, storage, command and protection.
  • Weapons training and instruction in missile/rocket production. CFR reports that Hamas developed greater capacity to manufacture its own missiles after training with the IRGC and Iranian-supported groups.
  • Irregular/asymmetric warfare: Iran's Quds Force specializes in training partner forces in tactics suited to fighting technologically superior conventional militaries. CSIS describes Quds Force activities as including training, advising, equipping and funding partner forces.
  • Training outside Gaza: There have been reports of Hamas personnel being sent to Iran for training. CFR reports an estimate of roughly 500 Hamas fighters trained in Iran in preparation for the October 7 attacks, although that figure and the precise purpose of the training should be treated as a reported estimate rather than an established fact.
  • Transfer of expertise: Iranian assistance wasn't necessarily just "Iranian instructors teaching Hamas." Hamas developed substantial indigenous capabilities, including its own rocket production, while benefiting from Iranian technical knowledge and assistance.

Propaganda Arm
Hamas developed its own sophisticated propaganda apparatus while operating within a long-standing Iranian support relationship that included training, guidance, technology and communications expertise.

Show quote history

Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Palestine doesn't have a military. That is just facts.

Speaking of repeating nonsense and propaganda you never came back with sources for you claims on the 9th of this month.

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · Today 18:56

@FloralDeerPattern ,

‘Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Palestine doesn't have a military. That is just facts.’

Well, to be fair, they also were the government of Gaza. It’s possible to be both, as the IRG are now in Iran.

@OpenScroller ,

You never came back on my previous post of military experts on Israel’s conduct in Gaza. I linked to an interesting article.

But, if you would prefer the full independent report to Biden, here it is:

www.justsecurity.org/94980/task-force-national-security-memorandum-20/

OpenScroller · Today 20:34

Newbutoldfather · Yesterday 20:03

‘John Spencer is probably the foremost expert to give an opinion on this war considering his credentials in urban warfare. Who has challenged him and what were their credentials?’

What access do you think he got and who controlled it?

Here is an actual U.S military targeting expert who forensically destroys Spencer’s arguments.

www.wesjbryant.com/opeds/we-must-face-the-hard-truth-in-gaza

‘don't see the opinions of the experts above platformed in MSM as a counter to the claims of genocide, do you? Why do you think that is?’

I have seen them in MSM but they don’t really pass the smell test right now. Just look at Gaza and see what Israel have done, and how they have treated the civilians.

Also, to me, once Israel refused to let any journalists in, I knew it wasn’t going to be pretty. Of course, they called it safety, but these war journalists are happy to risk their lives and have covered virtually all modern wars.

‘I admit to being shocked on researching the bias of the UN and NGOs operating in Gaza, which I had no idea about before the war, and there is plenty to discredit them. I haven't sought it, the evidence is there!

It makes sense with the NGOs anyway, as they need to be in Hamas's favour to operate there safely. Kind of explains why doctors 'testifying' about the kids they allegedly SAW being sniped by the IDF, didn't see or mention Hamas at all despite the fact we know they are in the hospitals.’

How did you ‘research’ the bias? These organisations are massive, thousands to tens of thousands of people. Of course you will find some Hamas sympathisers within them. But the vast majority are just doing their jobs.

And, as for medicin sans frontieres, they are doctors who volunteer. Do you think all of them collectively lied about what they saw? All bad witnesses? Because I haven’t seen a single report from a doctor denying that there was real
hunger among the civilians in Gaza.

‘Don't really have an opinion on Smotrich and G'vir as I haven't researched them enough or Israeli internal politics and infighting. My opinion of the 'settler violence' in the West Bank is that it's definitely not one sided though.
I was referring to the way the war in Gaza has actually been CONDUCTED and I don't think either of them have had much of a part to play in that have they?’

So you have researched in detail how they fought and the bias of NGOs working in Gaza, but not two prominent ministers, much covered in the MSM, who have actively called for settling Gaza and the West Bank?

And you don’t think that the war aims feed into the way it is fought?

‘Why do you think I 'literally see one side of the story and accept it without any reservations'? Do you think I have skin in the game, I'm getting paid, a bot?’

No, I doubt the above. I do think that most of your ‘research’ comes from your social media feed though, that confirms your existing bias. None of your posts even acknowledge that Israel could be meaningfully culpable in any way.

‘Maybe I just see thing with a bit more clarity than you because I came into this with zero biases or preconceived perceptions.’

What is my bias then? I think my posts are pretty balanced.

Wes J Bryant is known primarily for his analysis and commentary.

He has not been on the ground in Gaza.

You can't give a informed opinion on something you're observing from thousands of miles away and who is he getting his information from?

I prefer opinions of those who have been on the ground in Gaza, such all the people who have given opinions from my previous post.

I think that's pretty logical, don't you?

Original poster
FloralDeerPattern · Today 20:56

Newbutoldfather · Today 18:56

@FloralDeerPattern ,

‘Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Palestine doesn't have a military. That is just facts.’

Well, to be fair, they also were the government of Gaza. It’s possible to be both, as the IRG are now in Iran.

@OpenScroller ,

You never came back on my previous post of military experts on Israel’s conduct in Gaza. I linked to an interesting article.

But, if you would prefer the full independent report to Biden, here it is:

www.justsecurity.org/94980/task-force-national-security-memorandum-20/

If you want to say that Hamas is a military, that Oct 7 was a military offensive, that firing rockets is a military offensive etc etc knock yourself out. I'm not going to argue the toss, I couldn't care less what people call them.

General consensus is that Palestine doesn't have a military. I refer to Hamas as terrorists and their actions as those of terrorists. Others are free to call them and their actions whatever they please.

Rather than arguing over what Hamas are and aren't I'd much rather talk about the ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and the fact that British people are donating to that cause, completely legally and without consequence it would seem.

Some Britons are being arrested for holding signs but other Britons are getting tax deductions to fund terror, ethnic cleansing and illegal occupation abroad?

OP posts:
OpenScroller · Today 21:27

FloralDeerPattern · Today 20:56

If you want to say that Hamas is a military, that Oct 7 was a military offensive, that firing rockets is a military offensive etc etc knock yourself out. I'm not going to argue the toss, I couldn't care less what people call them.

General consensus is that Palestine doesn't have a military. I refer to Hamas as terrorists and their actions as those of terrorists. Others are free to call them and their actions whatever they please.

Rather than arguing over what Hamas are and aren't I'd much rather talk about the ethnic cleansing of the West Bank and the fact that British people are donating to that cause, completely legally and without consequence it would seem.

Some Britons are being arrested for holding signs but other Britons are getting tax deductions to fund terror, ethnic cleansing and illegal occupation abroad?

Show quote history

Sounds like you don't like being corrected in your assertion that Hamas had military capability and now you don't want to talk about Hamas although you, yourself, raised it.

What do they call that?

OpenScroller · Today 21:37

OpenScroller · Today 21:27

Sounds like you don't like being corrected in your assertion that Hamas had military capability and now you don't want to talk about Hamas although you, yourself, raised it.

What do they call that?

Show quote history

I meant NO military capability.

Original poster
FloralDeerPattern · Today 21:39

OpenScroller · Today 21:27

Sounds like you don't like being corrected in your assertion that Hamas had military capability and now you don't want to talk about Hamas although you, yourself, raised it.

What do they call that?

Show quote history

I didn't raise it. I was asked if I thought that Oct 7 was some kind of military escalation. I explained what I thought and gave the reasons why I thought that way.

You can talk about whatever you like here, go through and pick out my posts one by one and 'correct' me if you like. I started this thread to talk about what can be done by foreign governments to protect Palestinians from escalating Israeli violence and that's still what I want to talk about here.

For instance I would like the British charities that are funneling money to Israeli 'settler' terrorists in the occupied territory to be shut down immediately. I would also like for it to be made illegal to donate funds to what Ed Miliband called ethnic cleansing.

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