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Conflict in the Middle East
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8
Twiglets1 · 31/08/2025 16:16

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 16:07

I think they are reasonable too.
Hamas should disarm.

What I don't think is reasonable is his manipulation of the ceasefire talks so that they fail and his goals of there being no Palestinan state are realised

The talks are a charade.

Edited

If Hamas agrees to Netanyahu’s demands including Hamas disarming and leaving Gaza, and he still refuses to sign a ceasefire agreement, then I will agree with you.

As far as I can tell at the moment, the talks are only a charade in that Hamas thinks they still have some bargaining leeway and they don’t. They had a chance to negotiate earlier in the war but they have lost that opportunity now.

allusernamesaretakennow · 31/08/2025 18:07

waltzingparrot · 30/08/2025 13:46

Can our governments not put pressure on the neighbouring countries to at least give sanctuary to pregnant women and their children? In fact, all women and children.

I don't think the neighbouring countries want to.open their borders. They have in the past eg Jordan and it's led to Palestinians trying to overthrow them. Egypt seems particularly reluctant too.

I think only Trump can end this. If Hamas would fuck.off and do the honorable thing and surrender then Trump wd be forced to end the war.

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 18:11

allusernamesaretakennow · 31/08/2025 18:07

I don't think the neighbouring countries want to.open their borders. They have in the past eg Jordan and it's led to Palestinians trying to overthrow them. Egypt seems particularly reluctant too.

I think only Trump can end this. If Hamas would fuck.off and do the honorable thing and surrender then Trump wd be forced to end the war.

Trump's plan according to the Washington Post today is clearing out all of Gaza Strip to make way for a luxury resort and tech zone and America will take it over for ten years (I wonder who will take it after that....)

The article is behind a paywall but it's the first one on their website.

Hamas can fuck off but they will be taken the entire population of Gaza with them according to this plan. Nice bit of ethnic cleansing.

TooBigForMyBoots · 31/08/2025 19:40

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 14:04

Hopefully Netanyahu will respond to the ceasefire agreement of Israels terms agreed by Hamas nearly two weeks ago.

In the absence of peace and while the war continues, I hope Netenyahu will stop committing war crimes.

Bombing hospitals!
Starving Gazans!
Why?

We know how amazing the Israeli security forces are. We witnessed it in Lebanon and Iran. Foreign countries, far away. Yet, the only way they can defeat Hamas, next door in Gaza, is by starvation and war crimes

A PP positioned the debate in terms of pro-Israeli vs pro-Palestine. I am pro 2 state solution. That means being pro-Israel.

Netenyahu and his government are not pro-Israel. They are ruining Israel nationally and internationally.

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 20:32

Hospitals get bombed when they are used by military forces.

Same with churches and schools.

There is food in Gaza. It is not being distributed which has nothing to do with Israel (other than they are currently fighting a war in the same area). Hamas/gangs control the aid so it’s not getting to the people. Aid that should be free is regularly sold in the markets.

There are restaurants and cafes operating throughout Gaza and there has been throughout the entire war. In an area roughly the same as Birmingham city, we are meant to believe there are people suffering from extreme starvation and others popping out for Nutella soaked crepes.

The horrendous images we have seen recently have been of poor children who have underlying medical conditions and their images should not be being used to suggest that their appearance is widespread throughout Gaza. I remember the 80s images of Ethiopia. They are not similar situations.

There is untold suffering in Gaza and not everyone has access to food as they should do. 2 million tons of aid have been delivered to Gaza since the start of the war. Where has it gone if not to the people who need it? If you’re going to argue that it’s somehow Israel’s fault, you are not on the side of the Palestinian people.

If you do not understand the practicalities of urban warfare then I will happily point you in the direction of military experts ho can explain the complexities of operating in a built up urban environment that still has its civilian population embedded. Remember All eyes on Rafah when Biden pressurised Israel to back off? Hamas used that time to booby trap every building. They’d seen how the IDF operated in the north so changed their tactics. IDF had to check and clear every building knowing there were IEDs in every building being monitored and remotely detonated by Hamas to maximise IDF casualties. Buildings would either be destroyed by the IDF or by Hamas. Either way, the buildings were going to be destroyed.

More bombs have been dropped on Gaza than people have been killed. It is horrific that these things even have to be mentioned, never mind discussed but no other war has such a low combatant:civilian mortality rate. And yet people use the fact that Israel carried out completely different military operations in different countries as some sort of evidence of war crimes. All does is show your lack of knowledge.

There will not be a peaceful two state solution for a significant period of time and thinking otherwise is incredibly naive.

Hamas saw to that.

Palestine doesn’t want a two state solution. If you think it does, post some links to Palestinians living in Palestine saying they want a two state solution using either current or historic borders and I’ll take a look at it. Due to the heinous barbarity of 7 Oct, I completely understand if more Israelis now don’t want a two state solution. They are the ones living with the daily missiles being launched at them by neighbours who would happily see every last Israeli killed. They are on the front lines constantly being lectured that they are genocidal baby killers as they once again run to the bomb shelters or try to disarm a yet another terrorist or try to get back the bodies of their people.

Hamas could end this particular battle but they don’t want to.

Netanyahu could end things, but if he withdrew the troops tomorrow and left an armed Hamas in Gaza what do you think would happen? They’ve already said they’ll carry out 7 Oct as often as it takes to eradicate all Jews. Why is Israel expected to accept that?

I watched the recently released footage of the Taasa family during 7 Oct. It was horrific. The one standout thing for me was the utter lack of respect for life, empathy and compassion the Palestinian terrorist had. He didn’t care who died or who suffered. They were Jews so not worth anything. How do you suggest that is dealt with because until it is, there will be no two state solution.

So yeah, Netanyahu et al are crap at PR, but I think they’ve got bigger problems to deal with at the moment.

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:02

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SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:07

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Famine in gaza city. Not the whole of gaza. And not a word of blame for Hamas. Not a word.

What is interesting about this thread is how people don't engage with the substantive points made but just insult.

MissyB1 · 31/08/2025 21:10

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:07

Famine in gaza city. Not the whole of gaza. And not a word of blame for Hamas. Not a word.

What is interesting about this thread is how people don't engage with the substantive points made but just insult.

Hamas did not cause the famine, the whole world knows that, we all know who blocked the food and medical aid.

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 21:20

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Way to foster intelligent debate 🙄

Do you really think making comments like that is helpful or do you just not care? I have formed my opinions by looking at a variety of materials from a variety of people. So yeah, I studied.

I could have lobbed equally pejorative comments at many of the pro-Palestine posters on this thread but I didn’t.

Did you know the IPC lowered its criteria for declaring famine just for Gaza City? Or does knowing that involve studying & winging it? Heaven forfend.

Just harsh sanctions on Israel and their unilateral actions? People are going through unimaginable suffering and the quickest way for that to end is not by throwing avocados on the floor down your local Waitrose it’s by Hamas releasing all of the hostages and laying down their weapons.

If you think that pressuring the UK government is going to do anything to end this war you clearly have a very basic understanding of what is going on.

But hey, you do you.

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:20

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SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:22

MissyB1 · 31/08/2025 21:10

Hamas did not cause the famine, the whole world knows that, we all know who blocked the food and medical aid.

Oh come on. Hamas caused the war, have refused to surrender, disrupted aid and food supplies. There is plenty Israel is responsible for and plenty they have done wrong but it is ridiculous to pretend Hamas have had no role to play in this situation. How disgraceful to absolve them of responsibility.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:23

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Do share the pdf you are talking about.

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 21:25

Did you know the IPC lowered its criteria for declaring famine just for Gaza City? Or does knowing that involve studying & winging it? Heaven forfend.

@Lolapusht

What date did they lower it?

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:27

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 21:20

Way to foster intelligent debate 🙄

Do you really think making comments like that is helpful or do you just not care? I have formed my opinions by looking at a variety of materials from a variety of people. So yeah, I studied.

I could have lobbed equally pejorative comments at many of the pro-Palestine posters on this thread but I didn’t.

Did you know the IPC lowered its criteria for declaring famine just for Gaza City? Or does knowing that involve studying & winging it? Heaven forfend.

Just harsh sanctions on Israel and their unilateral actions? People are going through unimaginable suffering and the quickest way for that to end is not by throwing avocados on the floor down your local Waitrose it’s by Hamas releasing all of the hostages and laying down their weapons.

If you think that pressuring the UK government is going to do anything to end this war you clearly have a very basic understanding of what is going on.

But hey, you do you.

I have no desire to have any debate with you. Pregnant women starving should never be a 'debate'.

If people haven't already, consider writing to your representatives, Israel cannot carry on this forced starvation and ethnic cleansing without the complicity of other governments. Huge strides have been made already, we've seen governments criticising the Israeli government and the IDF in ways which would have been unimaginable even 6 months ago and a slowing of weapons trades from countries like Germany, Canada and the Netherlands. Keep the pressure up, make it clear that you don't want your government trading with a country who openly declare their want for the ethnic cleansing of 2 million people. No morals, no trade.

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:29

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:23

Do share the pdf you are talking about.

I'm not linking to propaganda I'm afraid, you will have to do what the previous poster has done and Google it.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:34

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:27

I have no desire to have any debate with you. Pregnant women starving should never be a 'debate'.

If people haven't already, consider writing to your representatives, Israel cannot carry on this forced starvation and ethnic cleansing without the complicity of other governments. Huge strides have been made already, we've seen governments criticising the Israeli government and the IDF in ways which would have been unimaginable even 6 months ago and a slowing of weapons trades from countries like Germany, Canada and the Netherlands. Keep the pressure up, make it clear that you don't want your government trading with a country who openly declare their want for the ethnic cleansing of 2 million people. No morals, no trade.

Edited

No morals, no trade? Are you happy with the morals of all our trading partners? Israel isn't even in the top 20 but some countries with dodgy morals are.

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 21:36

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 21:25

Did you know the IPC lowered its criteria for declaring famine just for Gaza City? Or does knowing that involve studying & winging it? Heaven forfend.

@Lolapusht

What date did they lower it?

August 2025.

They included an annotation on one graphic in their most recent version of the Famine Factsheet that decreases a 30% figure to 15% that deals with how famine is measured.

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 21:40

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:29

I'm not linking to propaganda I'm afraid, you will have to do what the previous poster has done and Google it.

Lol 😂

@SharonEllis I think they mean the pdf all us Zionist got from the media controlling Jews with various talking points we get pay for mentioning (but not too much as you know what they’re like with money).

That pdf.

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 21:45

@Lolapusht

Can I ask where you got your information from ?
Was it from the IDF?

https://www.ipcinfo.org/fileadmin/user_upload/ipcinfo/docs/Response_to_Issues_Raised_Following_IPC_Famine_Classification_in_the_Gaza_Strip.pdf

Ipc themselves says that' it has not changed the criteria.

https://www.science.org/content/article/international-hunger-watchdog-faces-political-attacks-over-gaza-famine-declaration

It explains here how I'm conflict zones the criteria can be different but this has been applied since 2019.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:45

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 21:40

Lol 😂

@SharonEllis I think they mean the pdf all us Zionist got from the media controlling Jews with various talking points we get pay for mentioning (but not too much as you know what they’re like with money).

That pdf.

I was worried because I didn't recognise it. I thought we were all issued with identical pdfs 😂

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:49

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:34

No morals, no trade? Are you happy with the morals of all our trading partners? Israel isn't even in the top 20 but some countries with dodgy morals are.

You don't have to agree Sharon. You can lobby your government to trade with people who purposefully starve women and their babies if you like.

If people are against this though I would urge you to contact your representatives, Israel are moving forward with the mass displacement of the population of Gaza City and have made it clear that they will cut aid even further and starve people out of their homes to achieve this. Time is really running out now. Move the population south before containing them in 'camps' until they agree to leave Gaza forvever. We have been told the plan by the Israeli government themselves, when someone tells you who they are believe them and the Israeli government are hell bent on ethnic cleansing.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:52

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:49

You don't have to agree Sharon. You can lobby your government to trade with people who purposefully starve women and their babies if you like.

If people are against this though I would urge you to contact your representatives, Israel are moving forward with the mass displacement of the population of Gaza City and have made it clear that they will cut aid even further and starve people out of their homes to achieve this. Time is really running out now. Move the population south before containing them in 'camps' until they agree to leave Gaza forvever. We have been told the plan by the Israeli government themselves, when someone tells you who they are believe them and the Israeli government are hell bent on ethnic cleansing.

Edited

Why are you so insulting? What do you think it achieves?

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 21:54

You have to be careful though @GladioliGreen because USA don't like to see poor Israel penalised.

Group of US lawmakers want to ban trade with Ireland if we pass the Occupied Territories Bill
https://www.thejournal.ie/occupied-territories-bill-us-boycott-6785322-Aug2025/

Plus Mike Huckabee had some very mature and responsible words about this.

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2025/0716/1523806-mike-huckabee-occupied-palestinian-territories-bill/

We were told to call the Israel Foreign Minister and say we were sorry.

US official calls on Ireland to 'sober up' over OTB

The US Ambassador to Israel has criticised the Occupied Territories Bill, calling on Ireland to "sober up".

https://www.rte.ie/news/middle-east/2025/0716/1523806-mike-huckabee-occupied-palestinian-territories-bill/

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:56

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 21:40

Lol 😂

@SharonEllis I think they mean the pdf all us Zionist got from the media controlling Jews with various talking points we get pay for mentioning (but not too much as you know what they’re like with money).

That pdf.

And this is exactly why we shouldn't be 'debating' starving pregnant women, don't provide Sunday night entertainment for people like this. They don't 'debate' starving Sudanese women for entertainment, they reserve that for Palestinians only, for the vulnerable women living in the most dangerous place on earth, ask yourself why someone would want to spend their Sunday night laughing and joking on a thread like this.

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 21:59

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:45

I was worried because I didn't recognise it. I thought we were all issued with identical pdfs 😂

Wow laughing emojis on a thread discussing the forced starvation of mothers and babies, keep it classy

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