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Conflict in the Middle East
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SharonEllis · 01/09/2025 18:30

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 18:22

I will take the word of 430 genocide scholars

You do that.

allusernamesaretakennow · 01/09/2025 20:11

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 16:57

I am trying to raise awareness of the situation what are you trying to do?

I don't think these threads are raising awareness. People switch off with the constant inability to recognise why there is a conflict.

I've noticed over the last year or so fewer and fewer posters engage since it's pointless. These type of threads do nothing to help anyone or 'raise awareness '.

Some posters pop by from time to time (as I do) and see little change and so go again.

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 20:14

Fair enough @allusernamesaretakennow i do too, but sometimes just feels like you have to try

OP posts:
Stripes56 · 01/09/2025 21:16

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 20:14

Fair enough @allusernamesaretakennow i do too, but sometimes just feels like you have to try

Hi @EverexpandingOf course the view of genocide academics is completely appropriate to your thread.

Your post is about women, and hence also their children- children make half the population of children. Women are half the rest - so if genocide is being committed- it is of course going to impact them.

“Eighty-six percent of those who voted among the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars backed the resolution, which declares "Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide in Article II of the United Nations Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948)."

I think the cognitive dissonance that Israel could be in anyway responsible for this it too much for some to cope with. So they will deflect deflect deflect. They would rather talk about the blame they can apportion to Palestinians themselves than actually get into the meat of the problem. The way the current war in Gaza is being fought.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-865937

Israel's Gaza actions meet genocide criteria, scholars say | The Jerusalem Post

The move comes amid proceedings at the International Court of Justice (ICJ), where South Africa is pursuing a case against Israel under the Genocide Convention.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-865937

Stripes56 · 01/09/2025 21:27

@Everexpanding
The view of genocide academics is particularly important as some posters will automatically dismiss views of the UN as being antisemitic.

The UN does have a report on violence being committed in Gaza. I thought the following paragraph was very moving:

“There is more than one way to subject a people to genocide. Destroying them in whole or in part psychologically is one of them,” the expert said. “The horrors that Palestinian mothers, in particular, continue to endure — watching their children slowly starve, killed, maimed, and buried alive — is killing them repeatedly in a single day. The psychological trauma they, and all Palestinians in Gaza, are suffering knows no boundaries.” Many women, including mothers, have also been killed while seeking food and water for their families.“

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/gaza-un-expert-denounces-genocidal-violence-against-women-and-girls/

Gaza: UN expert denounces genocidal violence against women and girls - Question of Palestine

  To learn more about Special Procedures of the UN Human Rights Council and the Question of Palestine, click here to visit the dedicated webpage. 17 July 2025 The UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, its causes and consequences...

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/gaza-un-expert-denounces-genocidal-violence-against-women-and-girls/

mids2019 · 02/09/2025 07:23

Often the media try and find educated Palestinian women to give views on the conflict and I think there is a subtle ploy to project the women as westernized in their value sets as to garner increased sympathy amongst western populations. This ignore the subjugation of women in such societies as the Palestinians where as I said before their prime value is deemed child bearing; this is evidenced by the high number of children per family and the relative youth of society as a whole.

I think everyone on this thread has sympathy for women and children in a war zone but you can simultaneously debate the structure of a society that leads to such high birth rates especially during combat. To describe Pa
Palestinian women as free in their reproductive choices is disingenuous and I think women should be free to comment on that.

Hamas know what propaganda is working and what levers work with western governments. With Hamas facing the loss of Gaza city and I think defeat it makes sense for them (and their suppprters) to use every media avenue possible to garner sympathy for Palestinians and stoke hatred of Israelis as international pressure is their only hope for survival.

I for one hope Hamas fall soon.

Lolapusht · 02/09/2025 08:41

Stripes56 · 01/09/2025 21:16

Hi @EverexpandingOf course the view of genocide academics is completely appropriate to your thread.

Your post is about women, and hence also their children- children make half the population of children. Women are half the rest - so if genocide is being committed- it is of course going to impact them.

“Eighty-six percent of those who voted among the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars backed the resolution, which declares "Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide in Article II of the United Nations Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948)."

I think the cognitive dissonance that Israel could be in anyway responsible for this it too much for some to cope with. So they will deflect deflect deflect. They would rather talk about the blame they can apportion to Palestinians themselves than actually get into the meat of the problem. The way the current war in Gaza is being fought.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-865937

…and if those who voted amounted to only 20% of eligible voters?

https://x.com/drsaraebrown/status/1962611572762910940?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw]]

Puts a slightly different spin on things, doesn’t it?

https://x.com/drsaraebrown/status/1962611572762910940?s=46&t=OcT4uVFDgKzZK5bQN0DMLw%5D%5D

Everexpanding · 02/09/2025 13:56

It doesn’t change the fact that Palestinian civilians are being deliberately starved, that 63,000 Palestinians are dead, that Gaza now has the world’s largest population of child amputees, that aid workers and journalists have been deliberately slaughtered.
That 17,000 children at least have been killed

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/15/the-guardian-view-on-the-children-of-gaza-when-17000-die-its-more-than-a-mistake

OP posts:
Stripes56 · 02/09/2025 20:06

Everexpanding · 02/09/2025 13:56

It doesn’t change the fact that Palestinian civilians are being deliberately starved, that 63,000 Palestinians are dead, that Gaza now has the world’s largest population of child amputees, that aid workers and journalists have been deliberately slaughtered.
That 17,000 children at least have been killed

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/15/the-guardian-view-on-the-children-of-gaza-when-17000-die-its-more-than-a-mistake

The vote has clearly upset Israel and her supporters. They are doing their best to discredit it, understandably.

111 scholars of genocide felt strongly enough to vote genocide by Israel is a significant concern. 14 felt strongly enough to vote that genocide is not a concern.

The fact that the vote was taking place was clearly contentious but around additional 300 academics could have voted that genocide was NOT taking place - but they chose not to. If they felt strongly that genocide was not taking place, surely they would have voted too?

One should add caveats to the numbers who voted, but still - there are over 100 academics who are expressing serious concerns that cannot and should not be easily dismissed.

SharonEllis · 02/09/2025 20:43

Stripes56 · 02/09/2025 20:06

The vote has clearly upset Israel and her supporters. They are doing their best to discredit it, understandably.

111 scholars of genocide felt strongly enough to vote genocide by Israel is a significant concern. 14 felt strongly enough to vote that genocide is not a concern.

The fact that the vote was taking place was clearly contentious but around additional 300 academics could have voted that genocide was NOT taking place - but they chose not to. If they felt strongly that genocide was not taking place, surely they would have voted too?

One should add caveats to the numbers who voted, but still - there are over 100 academics who are expressing serious concerns that cannot and should not be easily dismissed.

You can't make the judgement without among other things, understanding the organisation, who its members are, what the process was for the vote, how information was disseminated and debated. Concerns have been expressed about the whole process in terns of its legitimacy, transparency and the authority of those who voted.

mids2019 · 03/09/2025 07:03

A genocide scholar is not a lawyer and you could argue like all academics do want status and publicity and this conflict has offered it to them. We do not know how many historians in general would disagree with the findings and therefore there is bias in this declaration and it would seem the group are self selecting and possibly have similar biases. Why didn't a group of genocide scholars pontificate immediately about the horrors of October 7th?

SharonEllis · 03/09/2025 07:10

mids2019 · 03/09/2025 07:03

A genocide scholar is not a lawyer and you could argue like all academics do want status and publicity and this conflict has offered it to them. We do not know how many historians in general would disagree with the findings and therefore there is bias in this declaration and it would seem the group are self selecting and possibly have similar biases. Why didn't a group of genocide scholars pontificate immediately about the horrors of October 7th?

This particular group (who are not all academics) notably didn't I understand.

Stripes56 · 03/09/2025 07:22

This is a very positive development @Everexpanding
UK is going to provide £3 million funding to support women in Gaza:
“UK funding is set to support some of the 130 women who give birth every day against the backdrop of conflict in Gaza. This £3m funding, delivered through the UN’s sexual and reproductive health agency (UNFPA) is supporting midwives to provide essential lifesaving care for mothers and newborn babies in conflicts and crises.

UNFPA is providing life-saving reproductive health supplies for women and girls in Gaza. Since the conflict began, UNFPA has reached over one million people with sexual and productive health services and gender-based violence prevention and response support.

It has also ensured that over 150,000 women and girls have been able to purchase essential menstrual and hygiene items to meet their basic needs.”

There is a caveat though, as it depends on Israel allowing it through:

“The aid could reach thousands—but only if Israel allows a substantial increase in vital humanitarian access.
The announcement comes after the Famine Review Committee confirmed famine in parts of Gaza.

The UK reiterates that the Israeli government’s refusal to allow sufficient aid into Gaza has caused this man-made catastrophe and urges it to take action to improve the situation immediately.”

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-announces-new-support-for-women-and-girls-in-gaza

UK announces new support for women and girls in Gaza

UK announces new life-saving support for pregnant women and new mothers, and menstrual hygiene kits for thousands of women and girls.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-announces-new-support-for-women-and-girls-in-gaza

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