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Conflict in the Middle East
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8
GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 22:00

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 21:52

Why are you so insulting? What do you think it achieves?

Can you clarify what you mean? Insulting to say you have the freedom to do as you please but if people disagree with what is happening then they should contact their representatives and make their voice heard. If you are in the EU consider your Meps too, the EU is Israels largest trading partner and they are breaching their trade agreement. Keep the pressure up, it is making a difference.

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:03

@Lolapusht to quote you

”d but no other war has such a low combatant:civilian mortality rate.”

bullshit according to Oxfam

www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-children-killed-gaza-israeli-military-any-other-recent-conflict

OP posts:
Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:07

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:27

I have no desire to have any debate with you. Pregnant women starving should never be a 'debate'.

If people haven't already, consider writing to your representatives, Israel cannot carry on this forced starvation and ethnic cleansing without the complicity of other governments. Huge strides have been made already, we've seen governments criticising the Israeli government and the IDF in ways which would have been unimaginable even 6 months ago and a slowing of weapons trades from countries like Germany, Canada and the Netherlands. Keep the pressure up, make it clear that you don't want your government trading with a country who openly declare their want for the ethnic cleansing of 2 million people. No morals, no trade.

Edited

Thank you @GladioliGreen thank you for your suggestions I agree the situation needs to end, any way to push politicians to act protesting, letters, boycotts and sanctions in Israel are what is needed now

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:08

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 21:56

And this is exactly why we shouldn't be 'debating' starving pregnant women, don't provide Sunday night entertainment for people like this. They don't 'debate' starving Sudanese women for entertainment, they reserve that for Palestinians only, for the vulnerable women living in the most dangerous place on earth, ask yourself why someone would want to spend their Sunday night laughing and joking on a thread like this.

I am not debating starving women for entertainment, don't be absurd. Every attempt at debate is met with insult and nonsense. When people insult us with antisemitic tropes we have two options. Laugh or get angry. I won't waste my anger.

Instead I spent most of the evening planning with my friends for the march against antisemitism next weekend.

Next Sunday, 1pm. Do join us. Register at https://antisemitism.org/

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:09

Being opposed to genocide is not antisemitism

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:10

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:09

Being opposed to genocide is not antisemitism

And you accuse us of regurgitating talking points 😂

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:11

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 22:00

Can you clarify what you mean? Insulting to say you have the freedom to do as you please but if people disagree with what is happening then they should contact their representatives and make their voice heard. If you are in the EU consider your Meps too, the EU is Israels largest trading partner and they are breaching their trade agreement. Keep the pressure up, it is making a difference.

But you didn't say I had the freedom to do what I please did you? You said 'you can lobby your government to trade with people who purposefully starve women and their babies if you like.'

TooBigForMyBoots · 31/08/2025 22:13

Gaza has been suffering a calorie deficit. Netenyahu has not permitted sufficient calories into Gaza to sustain the population.

Did you not read my link to the latest IDF statement wrt food supplies?

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 22:14

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:08

I am not debating starving women for entertainment, don't be absurd. Every attempt at debate is met with insult and nonsense. When people insult us with antisemitic tropes we have two options. Laugh or get angry. I won't waste my anger.

Instead I spent most of the evening planning with my friends for the march against antisemitism next weekend.

Next Sunday, 1pm. Do join us. Register at https://antisemitism.org/

Edited

Why are you spending your Sunday night debating starving pregnant women Sharon? What is about the most vulnerable women in the most dangerous place on earth that make you think this is good topic for 'debate'? Are you 'debating' other famines too or do you reserve that for pregnant Palestinian women alone? These women need help, not 'debate' on whether or not they are actually starving enough.

Like I said earlier I am in an EU country so won't be attending any British marches.

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:20

@SharonEllis please read below from a holocaust survivor, I think she knows what she is talking about
Veronika Cohen, 80, a Holocaust survivor who was born in the ghetto in Budapest, said she had come to protest outside Yad Vashem on the day of remembrance because: “I don’t think we can remember our suffering without acknowledging the suffering of Gaza, the deaths of tens of thousands of children, the starvation that’s going on this minute, for which we are partially responsible. It occupies the same place in my heart.She acknowledged that she was in the minority in Israel when it came to speaking up about the terrible cost of the war to Palestinian life. “People here see Palestinians as the other and that’s why they have created a barrier,” she said. “They have managed not to feel their pain and I find that incomprehensible. To me, when I read the stories of their suffering in Gaza, it blends completely into how I feel about the Holocaust.Cohen’s eyes filled with tears as she recalled seeing a recent photo of a young Palestinian boy whose arms had been blown off by Israeli missile strikes in Gaza. “The news story said that when he woke up from his operation, the first thing he did was turn to his mother, and he said: ‘how will I hug you now?’ To me, that’s a Holocaust story. And that’s why we are here: to try to awaken people to their pain in any way we can.”

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 31/08/2025 22:20

Twiglets1 · 31/08/2025 14:08

They won't unless Hamas also agree to disarm and leave Gaza.

Can't Netenyahu defeat Hamas without committing war crimes in the name of Israel? He has the military advantage. He has the intelligence advantage. Israelis arent starving.

In fact they're actively protesting his policies, both in Gaza and Israel.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:27

GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 22:14

Why are you spending your Sunday night debating starving pregnant women Sharon? What is about the most vulnerable women in the most dangerous place on earth that make you think this is good topic for 'debate'? Are you 'debating' other famines too or do you reserve that for pregnant Palestinian women alone? These women need help, not 'debate' on whether or not they are actually starving enough.

Like I said earlier I am in an EU country so won't be attending any British marches.

I havent been 'debating starving women' this evening. Im not sure I even know what that means.

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:28

“Ruth Vleeschhouwer Falak, 89, who survived the Nazi-occupation of the Netherlands as a child, said she was standing there because “in the 1930s, if Germans had stood up loudly against the Nazi party, maybe they wouldn’t have been able to do what they did to us. Speaking up is not a choice for me.”

“The saying is never again; that means never again for anybody. That’s really what we’re standing here for,” added Ilana Drukker Tokotin, 87, who spent her childhood in hiding from the Nazis.

OP posts:
Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:34

If anyone wishes to support Palestinian civilians please write to your Mps, MEPs, to ask them to bring pressure to bear on Israel, please boycottt and protest. Free Palestine and good night

OP posts:
GladioliGreen · 31/08/2025 22:44

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:27

I havent been 'debating starving women' this evening. Im not sure I even know what that means.

Sorry, that should have said 'attempting to debate', to quote your goodself, Every attempt at debate is met with insult and nonsense., it's quite clear that this thread is a thread about starving women and that you would like to debate here if only someone would entertain you, that someone won't be me.

To echo what I said previously, if the purposeful starvation of pregnant women and their babies to further the Israelis governments clearly stated wish of ethnically cleansing 2 million people from their homes in Gaza disturbs you write to your representatives and let them know. Change can happen.

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:50

@GladioliGreen and as I said before all you are interested in is insult. The idea that I am looking for entertainment is entirely a figment of your imagination. Good night.

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 23:16

Everexpanding · 31/08/2025 22:03

@Lolapusht to quote you

”d but no other war has such a low combatant:civilian mortality rate.”

bullshit according to Oxfam

www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-children-killed-gaza-israeli-military-any-other-recent-conflict

That article doesn’t deal with a combatant:civilian mortality rate.

It discusses the total numbers which is different.

Martymcfly24 · 31/08/2025 23:24

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 23:16

That article doesn’t deal with a combatant:civilian mortality rate.

It discusses the total numbers which is different.

Where did you get your numbers regarding civilian mortality rate?

Can I ask if you agree with the articles I posted re the criteria for famine?

BourgeoisBabe · 31/08/2025 23:27

mids2019 · 30/08/2025 13:37

Why would you choose to become pregnant in the last months in Gaza? Is it wrong saying that there is choice in childbirth and family size? I worry about a culture where women are becoming pregnant in a horrific war zone and what patriarchal pressures are being placed on them? Maybe Hamas are pleased because these poor women and children can add to their propaganda campaign?

Despicable comment

ScrollingLeaves · 01/09/2025 00:09

Lolapusht · 31/08/2025 23:16

That article doesn’t deal with a combatant:civilian mortality rate.

It discusses the total numbers which is different.

Here is a terrorist/civilian mortality comparison.

Israeli army database suggests at least 83% of Gaza dead were civilians
Classified intelligence from May reveals Israel believed it had killed some 8,900 militants in its attacks on Gaza, indicating a proportion of civilian slaughter with few parallels in modern warfare, a joint investigation finds.
https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants/
That is by by Yuval Abraham
August 21, 2025
in +972 Magazine

IDF database suggests 83% of Gaza dead were civilians

Classified intelligence reveals Israel killed 8,900 militants by May, indicating an almost unparalleled proportion of civilian slaughter.

https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants

TooBigForMyBoots · 01/09/2025 00:11

BourgeoisBabe · 31/08/2025 23:27

Despicable comment

And ignorant.

Stripes56 · 01/09/2025 01:36

SharonEllis · 31/08/2025 22:27

I havent been 'debating starving women' this evening. Im not sure I even know what that means.

Maybe be not this evening Sharon, but you did think it appropriate to ask us consider what blame starving women should accept in falling pregnant, when contraception has probably been unavailable.

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 02:21

ScrollingLeaves · 01/09/2025 00:09

Here is a terrorist/civilian mortality comparison.

Israeli army database suggests at least 83% of Gaza dead were civilians
Classified intelligence from May reveals Israel believed it had killed some 8,900 militants in its attacks on Gaza, indicating a proportion of civilian slaughter with few parallels in modern warfare, a joint investigation finds.
https://www.972mag.com/israeli-intelligence-database-83-percent-civilians-militants/
That is by by Yuval Abraham
August 21, 2025
in +972 Magazine

If you read the article they've just done simple maths by subtracting the number of known named terrorist deaths from the IDF database, from the Hamas total death figure.

The article says itself

The intelligence sources explained that the total number of militants killed is likely higher than the number recorded in the internal database, since it does not include Hamas or PIJ operatives who were killed but could not be identified by name, Gazans who took part in fighting but were not officially members of Hamas or PIJ, nor political figures in Hamas such as mayors and government ministers whom Israel also considers legitimate targets (in violation of international law).

The article is incorrect in asserting targeting political figures is in violation of IL, as depending on the circumstances they can be as follows:

When a minister becomes a legitimate target:
Direct Participation in Hostilities (DPH):
If a minister is directly involved in military operations or decision-making that constitutes participation in hostilities, they lose their civilian status and protection for the duration of their involvement.

Effective Contribution to Military Action:
A minister's office or their actions might be considered a legitimate target if they "make an effective contribution to military action" and their destruction, capture, or neutralization would offer a definite military advantage.

Also civilians participating in hostilities:

Civilians are protected against direct attack unless, and for such time, as they directly participate in hostilities. Parties to an armed conflict must take all feasible precautions in determining whether a person is a civilian and, if that is the case, whether he or she is directly participating in hostilities.

In case of doubt, the person in question must be presumed to be a civilian and protected against direct attack. To protect civilians, combatants – and anyone directly participating in hostilities – must distinguish themselves from civilians in all military operations by wearing identifiable insignia and carrying arms openly.

Looks like the assorted terrorist groups in Gaza have been exempted from that bold bit.

Hamas is also said to have recruited around 30,000 ‘youths’ (who will be recorded as children in the casualty rate) during the war, which should make pro-Palestinians not vociferously publicly calling for Hamas to surrender sick to their stomach because it’s pretty obvious Hamas has been strengthened to continue by the global support they have had for their cause, which includes those who remove them from the equation when focusing on demonising Israel including the OP of this thread.

Do they support child soldiers, as young as 12, being used as combatants?

The argument that it’s better for civilians, including pregnant women and children, to die as human sacrifices for Hamas than evacuate them to a safe country because they may not be able to go back to their already devastated homeland for a while is fucked up enough, but to know child soldiers are being used by terrorists in a war as cannon fodder and STILL not be marching and protesting for Hamas to surrender is beyond my comprehension!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-said-to-recruit-30000-gaza-youths-into-its-military-wing/amp/

Has there ever been a war where one side has been expected to be able to name all the dead combatants of the opposing side, in an ongoing war no less, anyway?

Targeting under International Humanitarian Law | How does law protect in war? - Online casebook

https://casebook.icrc.org/highlight/targeting-under-international-humanitarian-law

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 02:29

Sorry I meant to say bit too late to edit:

The argument by people sitting in their comfy homes in peaceful suburbia in safe European countries that it’s better for civilians, including pregnant women and children, to die as human sacrifices for Hamas than evacuate them to a safe country because they may not be able to go back to their already devastated homeland for a while is fucked up enough, but to know child soldiers are being used by terrorists in a war as cannon fodder and STILL not be marching and protesting for Hamas to surrender is beyond my comprehension!

Twiglets1 · 01/09/2025 05:45

Stripes56 · 01/09/2025 01:36

Maybe be not this evening Sharon, but you did think it appropriate to ask us consider what blame starving women should accept in falling pregnant, when contraception has probably been unavailable.

Where did anyone say starving women should be blamed for falling pregnant?

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