Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

[EasterIssland]

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-22/ty-article/.premium/slovenia-demands-israels-removal-from-eurovision-2025/00000193-ed37-da9f-ad9b-ed7f3d140000

I watch the news and I hear about innocent Palestinian children having limbs blown off and my heart bleeds.

I hear about children hostages who have not yet been released.

I come on Mumsnet and I hear pompous legal arguments about whether Israelis should compete in an indoor bowls match in Norfolk .

Im no legal expert but I know how to focus on the issues that matter.

Are you criticising LFI for engaging with the bowling competition or people here for having a view on them doing so? Nobody is stopping you from leaving the thread to use your time more constructively!

@OpheliaWasntMad agreed.

@stomachamelon love you too! I’m reading psalm 30 and thinking of you ❤️

Can you not disagree without flinging personal insults?

apparently not. but to quote Michelle Obama - when they go low, we go high.

Have you considered the two are linked. People oppose to Israel taking part in international competitions whilst their government continues killing children and occupying a land that doesn’t belong to them.

Pot kettle and all that.

I'd be curious what work lawyers for Israel UK have been doing on the serious issues you describe. I'm sure right at this very minute they are working to make sure those poor children get justice, oh no wait they actually oppose Netanyahus arrest warrant. But the people talking about what they are doing as always are the problem.

I don't know how long it will take people to realise that if Israel stops doing bad things, like apartheid and racial segregation, imprisoning children and abusing them, stealing people's homes and burning down their villages, using genocidal hate speech, blowing up hospitals one by one etc the amount of people talking about Israel in a negative way will decrease. Instead lawyers spend their time working on getting Israel represented in minor sports competitions and war criminals off the hook and Israel announces it's going to be spending $150million on hasbara focusing on US college campuses and social media campaigns.

Perhaps you can point out my personal insults?

It was the same poster who I recall telling others to respond without insults, but evidently not taking their own advice. I was merely reminding them of it.

I come on here because I’m learning from different points of view. You’ve been very helpful in your advice on supporting Palestinian aid work. I’ve followed your advice and supported one of the brilliant charities you recommended.
That was constructive.
Listening to pontificating about the legalities of Israeli involvement in bowls tournaments in Norfolk was less constructive in my opinion. I think it deserved its own thread .

But we all appreciate different things…

Happy for you to open that thread. But please remember this thread is about Eurovision and that Slovenia requested for Israel not to take part. So the bowl tournament topic whilst a derailment is closer to the threads topic than the aid thread (for which there are already related ones)

Ok - fair point.
Probably is time for me to leave then . There’s only so much bowls tournament / Eurovision / legal niceties talk I can take .
I’ll get my coat …

Righting the kinds of deep wrongs that are going on in Israel against Palestinians will take more than supporting charities, important though that is. The issue of BDS / global boycotts of Israeli involvement in sporting events, is really important to consider as it’s a way of creating political pressure for change and demonstrating that there will not be business as usual. LFI were referenced on this thread by people wanting to oppose the idea of sanctions for sporting events and to frame all discussions of sanctions as a question of (unlawful) discrimination against private Israeli citizens. Therefore the discussion became granular. But it actually matters, even if you don’t understand why or want to engage in it.

The "worst" people for me are the ones who, despite mounting evidence, still defend what cannot be defended. You know the relentless killing of children, the deliberate starvation, the destruction of hospitals, of a culture and so on under the guise of self-defence.

I think some people cannot see or do not want to see that what is happening in Gaza and the criticism of the Israel government/Idf are linked.
Like you, I have also read that they are going to spend even more on propaganda. They must be very concerned to do this.

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging. Everyone does it in the multi media age In the face of extraordinary propaganda against them of course they are going to counter that. We see some of that propaganda on these threads. People post incredibly biased inflammatory material & lots of people don't counter it. Any country facing the depth of propaganda that Israel faces would do the same. Why do you expect Israel to behave differently?

Would they? Budget cuts left, right and centre but 150million to target US college campuses? Wouldn't it make more sense to start dealing with the reasons why Israels popularity has plummeted to depths not seen before? When your country has been found to operating apartheid and racial segregation what can you possibly say to make people think that's cool, I can overlook apartheid? Or when people are hearing your leaders say that they are going to destroy everything and then they are watching them blowing up hospitals what can you possibly say to boost your popularity? The thing that makes the most sense is to condemn and fire those people who have been spreading hateful, violent rhetoric rather than pretend that it never happened or that it's a coincidence that the country is doing exactly what they said they would but that's not being done.

Surely people realise that if you keep acting the same way that has made people think this place is not very nice then spending millions at the cost of public services is a waste of money when you don't intend to change the things that people don't like about you. Just like lawyers can force bowlers to accept Israel in their competition or the Eurovision can refuse to ban Israel, they can't force anyone to actually want Israel there, the only thing that will do that is to address the reasons people want no association with Israel in the first place or all you are doing is kicking the can down the road.

I think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest the misinformation, smear campaigns against anyone, organisation or country that challenges them, and the genocidal rhetoric coming from some of the Israeli government ministers is an example of diplomacy and advocacy. I think it is the lack of diplomacy and advocacy that is part of their problem.

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging.
I suggest you read these two articles. These explain it better than I ever could.
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/hasbara-a-long-running-strategy/
https://ccastilho.medium.com/the-hasbara-paradox-in-the-gaza-war-a8206d48ca23

What's the point of spending so much on hasbara when you have dangerouse extremists like Ben Gvir in government. Whose words and rhetoric can reverse any perceived positivity in moments.

@wanderingstar23 I'm honestly shocked that some posters don't get banned when they say such awful things repeatedly.

The pressure not to dissent is real