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Conflict in the Middle East

This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 4)

987 replies

Eyesopenwideawake · 09/07/2024 18:08

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/07/09/israel-gaza-hamas-hospitals/

I see the old thread is sadly almost full. I wonder how many of these I will start? 😢

OP posts:
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133
ConnieCounter · 26/09/2024 15:00

It's one way to shut down debate I suppose.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:02

Scirocco · 26/09/2024 14:47

Actually, my main sources that I tend to reference include: academic reports, media sources that rate reasonably to very well in terms of independent assessments of credibility, eyewitness accounts and lived experience.

I didn't post the initial link in this thread, so trying to use it to make digs at me isn't really going to work.

I do really think it says a lot when this is the kind of response people have when another person is saying that, not only is it horrible that there are trucks delivering unidentified bodies, but it's entirely possible people that the person knows and cares about might be on such a truck. A truly heartwarming display of empathy and consideration for innocent people.

No but you reposted it as you thought it was such an important and credible source.

And, yes, of course, bodies should be treated with dignity and Israel can and should do better.

Now let's look at what Israel's adversaries in this conflict are doing to bodies shall we? What state do you think Hadar Goldin's and Shaul Oron's bodies are in? What happened to Shani Louk's body? Was that not dehumanising?
Where's the body of Tal Chaimi? He was killed on 7/10 and HIS BODY taken back to Gaza
Where are the bodies of the baby Kfir Bibas? His 5 year old brother Ariel? Their mother Shiri? Can we demand details from the Hamas run ministry of health which refuses to take unidentidied bodies?

Slight whiff of hypocrisy in the air.

Yes, Israel should do better, what with being a democratic country. But how about demanding the same from Gaza?

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:03

ConnieCounter · 26/09/2024 15:00

It's one way to shut down debate I suppose.

Demanding credible sources? Strange statement.

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:05

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:03

Demanding credible sources? Strange statement.

Who defines what credible sources are ?

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:05

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:02

No but you reposted it as you thought it was such an important and credible source.

And, yes, of course, bodies should be treated with dignity and Israel can and should do better.

Now let's look at what Israel's adversaries in this conflict are doing to bodies shall we? What state do you think Hadar Goldin's and Shaul Oron's bodies are in? What happened to Shani Louk's body? Was that not dehumanising?
Where's the body of Tal Chaimi? He was killed on 7/10 and HIS BODY taken back to Gaza
Where are the bodies of the baby Kfir Bibas? His 5 year old brother Ariel? Their mother Shiri? Can we demand details from the Hamas run ministry of health which refuses to take unidentidied bodies?

Slight whiff of hypocrisy in the air.

Yes, Israel should do better, what with being a democratic country. But how about demanding the same from Gaza?

No but you reposted it as you thought it was such an important and credible source.

must be credible as it’s already been proven that it’s happened.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:06

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 14:57

I was the one that posted the link from the Middle East and to be honest I don’t care about the dig. They can criticise as much as they want the sources that won’t change the reality of the war crimes that Israel and some of the Israeli citizens are committing.

Who are "they"?
And I can tell you don't care about where you source your material from and its credibility. You do actually seem quite a fan of Al Manar and Press TV

Mellowdramadrama · 26/09/2024 15:06

The IDF throwing dead bodies of Palestinians off the top of buildings should tell you all you need to know about them. Utter scum.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:10

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:05

Who defines what credible sources are ?

Well, let's begin with if the Govts of Qatar or Iran - odious authoritarian regimes constantly meddling in the region - are funding it, chances are it's not credible. HTH.

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:11

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:06

Who are "they"?
And I can tell you don't care about where you source your material from and its credibility. You do actually seem quite a fan of Al Manar and Press TV

Who are they

. Those that criticise my sources.

You must have missed that I tend to post from several sources , some of them (or most of them) you won’t like them. Mainly because you don’t like that im posting about Israel’s war crimes.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:12

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:10

Well, let's begin with if the Govts of Qatar or Iran - odious authoritarian regimes constantly meddling in the region - are funding it, chances are it's not credible. HTH.

So is Israel returning decomposed bodies or is this a lie ?

id not say Israeli government is any better than Iran’s or qatars

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:14

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:02

No but you reposted it as you thought it was such an important and credible source.

And, yes, of course, bodies should be treated with dignity and Israel can and should do better.

Now let's look at what Israel's adversaries in this conflict are doing to bodies shall we? What state do you think Hadar Goldin's and Shaul Oron's bodies are in? What happened to Shani Louk's body? Was that not dehumanising?
Where's the body of Tal Chaimi? He was killed on 7/10 and HIS BODY taken back to Gaza
Where are the bodies of the baby Kfir Bibas? His 5 year old brother Ariel? Their mother Shiri? Can we demand details from the Hamas run ministry of health which refuses to take unidentidied bodies?

Slight whiff of hypocrisy in the air.

Yes, Israel should do better, what with being a democratic country. But how about demanding the same from Gaza?

Slight whiff of hypocrisy in the air.
Why? Did anyone here deny or condone any of that?

Scirocco · 26/09/2024 15:14

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:02

No but you reposted it as you thought it was such an important and credible source.

And, yes, of course, bodies should be treated with dignity and Israel can and should do better.

Now let's look at what Israel's adversaries in this conflict are doing to bodies shall we? What state do you think Hadar Goldin's and Shaul Oron's bodies are in? What happened to Shani Louk's body? Was that not dehumanising?
Where's the body of Tal Chaimi? He was killed on 7/10 and HIS BODY taken back to Gaza
Where are the bodies of the baby Kfir Bibas? His 5 year old brother Ariel? Their mother Shiri? Can we demand details from the Hamas run ministry of health which refuses to take unidentidied bodies?

Slight whiff of hypocrisy in the air.

Yes, Israel should do better, what with being a democratic country. But how about demanding the same from Gaza?

Interesting lack of apology or respect there.

Nobody here has condoned or sought to excuse any of the horrendous things done by Hamas. So trying to suggest otherwise isn't going to work. Hamas should be held accountable for their crimes and nobody here has said otherwise, that I can see.

The hypocrisy I can see is that shown by the people who disregard the pain and suffering of innocent people in Palestine and of those of us who have innocent people we care about in Palestine. If you don't care about or don't believe reports about the actions of Israel in Palestine (and now Lebanon too), you are able to choose not to read threads where the title makes it clear that the content is going to be about that. There is no need to come on to attack, make digs at, or try to hurt those of us who do have loved ones in harm's way. It's telling that some people feel the need to choose that course of action.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:14

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:11

Who are they

. Those that criticise my sources.

You must have missed that I tend to post from several sources , some of them (or most of them) you won’t like them. Mainly because you don’t like that im posting about Israel’s war crimes.

Yes, I know you only post about Israel's war crimes and not anyone else's in this conflict. Nice to have balance.

I have no problem with credible sources even if i don't like what they report. There's a big difference.

Scirocco · 26/09/2024 15:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

All Palestinians or just some?

There's a difference between saying that sort of thing about members of an organisation or saying it about a nationality/ethnicity in general.

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:16

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:14

Yes, I know you only post about Israel's war crimes and not anyone else's in this conflict. Nice to have balance.

I have no problem with credible sources even if i don't like what they report. There's a big difference.

Yes, I know you only post about Israel's war crimes and not anyone else's in this conflict. Nice to have balance.
Point me to your posts on Israeli war crimes? I am assuming if you're accusing someone of not having balance you have evidence for yours

EasterIssland · 26/09/2024 15:17

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:14

Yes, I know you only post about Israel's war crimes and not anyone else's in this conflict. Nice to have balance.

I have no problem with credible sources even if i don't like what they report. There's a big difference.

So can we focus and talk about Israel returning decomposed bodies?

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:21

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 14:37

Reads quite different doesn't it?
They want israel to provide more details. The fact that israel provides details is already more than what the Palestinians do for israelis killed and held hostage.

In some cases israel has dug up graves to identify bodies of hostages and then returned the bodies.
It's a bit gruesome but given the importance of retrieving bodies, you can understand why.

I mean, if we're talking about using bodies of dead people, where are the bodies of Hadar Goldin and Shaul Oron? Why were bodies of murdered Israelis like Shani Louk taken back to Gaza to be spat on and beaten in the street?

Dehumanisation indeed.

Reads quite different doesn't it?
No it doesn't

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:25

Scirocco · 26/09/2024 15:14

Interesting lack of apology or respect there.

Nobody here has condoned or sought to excuse any of the horrendous things done by Hamas. So trying to suggest otherwise isn't going to work. Hamas should be held accountable for their crimes and nobody here has said otherwise, that I can see.

The hypocrisy I can see is that shown by the people who disregard the pain and suffering of innocent people in Palestine and of those of us who have innocent people we care about in Palestine. If you don't care about or don't believe reports about the actions of Israel in Palestine (and now Lebanon too), you are able to choose not to read threads where the title makes it clear that the content is going to be about that. There is no need to come on to attack, make digs at, or try to hurt those of us who do have loved ones in harm's way. It's telling that some people feel the need to choose that course of action.

Apologise for what? Saying I don't believe Qatari funded sources?

This is an open website and I can counter misinformation. Labelling a thread "The Reality of what Israel is doing" is not "I would like sympathy because I am worried about a loved one", that's entirely different.

Good no one is condoning what is being done by Hamas, just as no one is condoning Israel on this thread either from what I can see. However, the one sided Israel bashing is nuts. This conflict does not exist in a vacuum and it is entirely reasonable to look at what the other side is doing. Shame that you perceive that as being attacked.

Many of us on this site are concerned about loved ones, friends and colleagues affected by the conflict and in harm's way.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:28

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:16

Yes, I know you only post about Israel's war crimes and not anyone else's in this conflict. Nice to have balance.
Point me to your posts on Israeli war crimes? I am assuming if you're accusing someone of not having balance you have evidence for yours

Only down thread I wrote about extremist settler violence being terrorist. I've actually started very few posts which weren't in response to others but the few I have done is directly saying israeli extremist settler violence is terrorist.
There you go.

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:30

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:25

Apologise for what? Saying I don't believe Qatari funded sources?

This is an open website and I can counter misinformation. Labelling a thread "The Reality of what Israel is doing" is not "I would like sympathy because I am worried about a loved one", that's entirely different.

Good no one is condoning what is being done by Hamas, just as no one is condoning Israel on this thread either from what I can see. However, the one sided Israel bashing is nuts. This conflict does not exist in a vacuum and it is entirely reasonable to look at what the other side is doing. Shame that you perceive that as being attacked.

Many of us on this site are concerned about loved ones, friends and colleagues affected by the conflict and in harm's way.

Coming from someone who does nothing but one sided bashing this post is so lacking in self awareness

No this conflict does not exist in a vacuum and highlighting atrocities on both sides is fair, denying or not acknowledging them, not so much

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:32

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:28

Only down thread I wrote about extremist settler violence being terrorist. I've actually started very few posts which weren't in response to others but the few I have done is directly saying israeli extremist settler violence is terrorist.
There you go.

Fair enough I missed that but unfortunately as I said up thread we hear constantly that everyone disagrees with settler violence yet it is not stopped in fact it is helped and supported by the Israeli government and IDF so it's hard to believe that so many people are disgusted by it when it was d so openly allowed to continue.

Scirocco · 26/09/2024 15:35

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:25

Apologise for what? Saying I don't believe Qatari funded sources?

This is an open website and I can counter misinformation. Labelling a thread "The Reality of what Israel is doing" is not "I would like sympathy because I am worried about a loved one", that's entirely different.

Good no one is condoning what is being done by Hamas, just as no one is condoning Israel on this thread either from what I can see. However, the one sided Israel bashing is nuts. This conflict does not exist in a vacuum and it is entirely reasonable to look at what the other side is doing. Shame that you perceive that as being attacked.

Many of us on this site are concerned about loved ones, friends and colleagues affected by the conflict and in harm's way.

Where's the misinformation? If you don't like a source, that doesn't mean everything in it is automatically untrue, so what evidence do you have to counter the documented accounts of these trucks transporting dead bodies?

Personally, I would not dismiss the feelings of others the way you have done in your posts here. People with loved ones in Palestine (and now Lebanon) deserve consideration of how they're spoken to, just like people whose loved ones were caught up in 7/10 or displaced from northern Israel. If you wouldn't speak in such a way to someone worried about a missing loved one who's Israeli, then you shouldn't speak in such a way to someone worried about a missing loved one who's Palestinian or Lebanese or any other nationality. Quite simply, it's rude.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:36

Dulra · 26/09/2024 15:30

Coming from someone who does nothing but one sided bashing this post is so lacking in self awareness

No this conflict does not exist in a vacuum and highlighting atrocities on both sides is fair, denying or not acknowledging them, not so much

Well, apart from the thread down below, I have commented on Israel in Gaza in another thead, I have written quite lengthy posts about what I'd like to see happen.. So i don't do "nothing but one sided bashing" That said, there is SO much insane and unfair one sided bashing of Israel on here that I end up being reactive to that rather than being able to share more thoughtful considerations.

StupidFarang · 26/09/2024 15:38

Scirocco · 26/09/2024 15:35

Where's the misinformation? If you don't like a source, that doesn't mean everything in it is automatically untrue, so what evidence do you have to counter the documented accounts of these trucks transporting dead bodies?

Personally, I would not dismiss the feelings of others the way you have done in your posts here. People with loved ones in Palestine (and now Lebanon) deserve consideration of how they're spoken to, just like people whose loved ones were caught up in 7/10 or displaced from northern Israel. If you wouldn't speak in such a way to someone worried about a missing loved one who's Israeli, then you shouldn't speak in such a way to someone worried about a missing loved one who's Palestinian or Lebanese or any other nationality. Quite simply, it's rude.

I have no idea what is rude about saying that Qatari funded sources are not credible. They aren't. It's absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is concerned about loved ones in palestine, Lebanon, Jordan or Israel.

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