This picture of Israeli soldiers smiling for a selfie in front of a destroyed Gaza...

[changefromhr]

I know there are lots of pictures. I try to avoid looking as its just so awful but this one couldn't be avoided.

How sickening that the soldiers can smile and act so happy in front of all that destruction.

This is just another picture, from the thousands, that shows how the Palestinians and their lives and homes are seen as worthless.

I thought you said this thread was meant as "a discussion about the various contributing factors that have led to those scenes emerging and about how we, in our own small ways, could take steps to help combat those factors"?

That was a rather ambitious and lofty goal, admittedly.

The poster also said

“In this thread, there are photos of soldiers, actual military personnel, in their uniforms and as such representing their country and government, behaving in ways which appear unprofessional and disrespectful. This conflict is very serious. Innocent lives have been lost, hostages seized from their homes, a population is starving and dying. The alarming disconnect between the seriousness of the situation and the apparent lack of concern for human suffering from some of the very people who need to be acting and be seen to be acting with professionalism is concerning.”

the last examples provided by me and another poster are proof of this.

@Dibilnik well, I would have liked that, but apparently you didn't want that and thought I was being "sanctimonious and offensive".

(As an aside, people don't get notifications of you replying unless you @ them).

I know that, of course, but my post wasn't really directed specifically at you although I was quoting you. It was more really to do with the spirit of the thread.

It's pretty clear that you are not really interested in exploring the humanity behind these images, you just (quite rightly and understandably) want to express contempt for people who are killing those you care about. There is no need to be disingenuous about that.

At no point have I been disingenuous about anything.

If you would like to discuss the pictures or give an opinion on them, please do. I would genuinely be interested in your take on them.

If you would like to discuss the pictures or give an opinion on them, please do.

As mentioned earlier, for me it just feels really wrong to speculate on the motives and feelings of people I don't know who are in a situation I can't begin to imagine.

Are you happy for the army members of a country to behave like the ones in the pics of this thread? Do you think that is acceptable and it shouldn’t be criticised ?

So if you don't want to discuss them, it's pretty difficult to have a discussion about them and pretty hard to then try to see them through a different perspective. But if you aren't interested in discussing the photos or commenting on the issues raised, it does feel somewhat unkind and goady to post an unattributed quote with a sarcastic-sounding comment at the end, on a thread that you seem to have no interest in contributing to in any constructive way.

In this thread, you've referred to me as being sanctimonious, offensive, disingenuous and holding people in contempt. When, if you weren't interested in participating in the discussion, you didn't have to say anything at all. It seems a bit uncalled for.

Well said @Scirocco and an accurate summary of what's happened on the thread. It's a real shame. You haven't been disingenuous at any point.

Armies kill people, it's their job. Agonising over the consequences of their actions is, I suspect, something that must be shelved for later.

does Army’s members role involved as well getting a picture with the person they’ve just killed / tortured / arrested and share it with the rest of the world ?

I've seen footage today of large groups of Israeli Protesters, protected by large group of IDF soldiers- dancing and singing- stopping access for food aid convoys. Makes me sick.

I'm guessing the not very subtly put thought process there is that everyone should have lots of sympathy for the poor traumatised people taking photos of themselves in those situations, no particular concern for the civilians because the soldiers are just doing their jobs, and anyone who says anything critical is a big meanie.

and that makes me sick to. They are celebrating, in the vilest of ways. And certainly not agonsing over the consequences of their actions.

Sympathy? Why?

Don't you think this sort of thing is just a consequence of social media making it possible to share bullshit?

Do you think armies in the past have behaved differently?

Armies kill people, it's their job.
@Dibilnik pretty blunt and ill informed summary of what armed personnel do, not sure most armed personnel would agree with your analysis of their job description

Sorry, you're right: they are ambassadors for their country who just happen to kill people too sometimes.

Do you think armies in the past have behaved differently?
Whether they have or not is irrelevant it is vile, disrespectful and inappropriate

Seriously why are you hung up on them killing people. Do you know anyone in the army? Ask them about the killing people, how many have they killed is that their main aim? Many of them are actually deployed on peace keeping missions you make them sound like assassins.

My mum used to say if your friend throws herself out of a bridge would you do the same? No no? Then why are you happy for the same mistakes to be repeated time after time.

rapes happened in the past. Doesn’t mean we should be with rapes that happen today don’t we? I don’t care if armies in the past behaved this way. Armies from 2024 shouldn’t do it

And bet those that torture and killed innocent civilians aren’t too happy about themselves

Do you think armies in the past have behaved differently?
History is here to learn from and not to repeat the mistakes of the past.
As the quote says, "those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it".
It appears that the IDF haven't learnt very much.

I suppose what I feel is that I wish you weren't picking at scabs that will make things more painful than they already are.

Why make things worse by paying attention to social media, as though it matters, as though people are not human and post complete rubbish?

Musicians have collaborated for years. Why can't we?
Just as an example:

Why must you insist on scathing comments about people who are involved in a horrible war that is not of their choosing?

Babylon will not fall until it falls first in our own hearts.

Am I the culprit of making things worse for seeing things in social media. Or are the ones taking the pics that shouldn’t be taking in the first place making the things worse?

being at war as far as I know doesn’t mean taking a picture next to the person that they’ve just detained , that they might kill or torture. That’s not being at war and I believe it’s an against the Geneva convention. I’m happy for you to focus yourself on music , others might prefer doing other things