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Conflict in the Middle East

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Horrors of violence towards women on October the 7th suppressed

477 replies

mids2019 · 04/12/2023 21:05

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

It looks like the UN may have been reluctant to investigate or highlight the sickening sexual violence committed on October 7th. It also appears some of the hostages may have been abused.

Was this because the horrendous violence doesn't fit in with that purely Palestinians are victims of this ongoing conflict? Are investigations into these crimes because women are viewed as second class citizens or the revelations 'muddy the waters' where some just want to see one side as the victim.

Israeli soldiers hug as they look at pictures of the Nova music festival victims at the site of the festival near Kibbutz Reim

Hamas planned sexual violence as weapon of war - Israeli campaigner

An Israeli campaigner says militants planned acts of sexual violence committed in October's attack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67613153

OP posts:
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SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 09:59

It didn't start on the 7th October. Why are we looking at this as if the timeline began from October 7th! This has been happening since 1948 perhaps longer. They have been resisting for years. Where is the evidence of these terrors? These rapes? Where are the witness accounts? When Palestinians were asked to prove thier dead, no one batted an eyelid. Palestinians were accused of making up thier dead. They wanted to evidence.

whereaw · 06/12/2023 10:01

@SunsetOnTheHorizon if it didn't start on October the 7th but it was a response to old grievances, why take a 9 month old baby? What did baby Kfir do?

Bunshaped · 06/12/2023 10:03

@SunsetOnTheHorizon do you generally disbelieve women who say they've been raped or sexually assaulted?

#metoo... unless they're Jewish...

SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 10:05

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SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 10:08

There is no justification to any of the evil acts on both sides?! What did baby Reem do?! She was the apple of her grandfather's eye?! Killed in an instant.

Bunshaped · 06/12/2023 10:08

Have you read any of the threads on this topic? Any at all?
Or have you just waded in, eager to shout your opinion?
The "massive smiles" and "waving "goodbye" have been explained time and time again.

whereaw · 06/12/2023 10:09

@pickledandpuzzled I 100% agree and I cannot understand why the collective call is not to root out this evil (Hamas and the like) and to keep ordinary, innocent people and children safe. The Pro Palestine view is so unbelievably misguided, although I understand most people who have it do have good intentions deep down. Yet I can see how it is putting Isreal against the world and therefore inflicting the very opposite of what the believers would say they want to do.

SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 10:11

Bunshaped · 06/12/2023 10:03

@SunsetOnTheHorizon do you generally disbelieve women who say they've been raped or sexually assaulted?

#metoo... unless they're Jewish...

What kind of insinuation is this?! No one has mentioned Jewish women!? If anything, Palestinians should be using the Muslim card! Because they are killing Muslims in massive numbers! Its a war against humanity not religion. Rape is never justified. Not for Jewish women not for anyone!

backtowinter · 06/12/2023 10:17

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Wow

Speechless. This post is just disgusting

SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 10:18

Bunshaped · 06/12/2023 10:08

Have you read any of the threads on this topic? Any at all?
Or have you just waded in, eager to shout your opinion?
The "massive smiles" and "waving "goodbye" have been explained time and time again.

I'll confess to wading in.

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 10:21

Yep didn't start on 7th October 2023 bit it didn't start in 1948 either. The conflict between the Jewish people and the Arabs on the land and in surrounding states goes on much longer

Just a few examples of treatment by the Arabs towards the indegenious Jewish population:
Safed looting 1834,
Hebron massacre 1834,
Attack on Safed 1838,
Jaffa deportations 1917,
Attack on Tel Hai 1920,
Jaffa riots 1921,
the riots 1929,
the riots in 1936.

But other than that, yes, life was awsome before jews had independence!

The above and more are why the international community decided and agreed if the British were pulling out of the Mandate then the land needed to be split. The Jewish and Arab population living on the land were obviously going to continue in a violent loop and it would get worse once the British left. Probably resulting in the ethic cleansing of Jews that has happened in most the other Arab states in the last 100 years or so. Unfortunately the Arabs refused to participate in the plans at the time and we have continued this violent loop anyway.

copiley695 · 06/12/2023 10:21

SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 10:11

What kind of insinuation is this?! No one has mentioned Jewish women!? If anything, Palestinians should be using the Muslim card! Because they are killing Muslims in massive numbers! Its a war against humanity not religion. Rape is never justified. Not for Jewish women not for anyone!

Most if not all of the woman who were raped during the attacks are Jewish, the rapes you are trying to deny or blame on the victims.

Bunshaped · 06/12/2023 10:26

Lack of condemnation for the sexual violence that took place says far, far more than an overuse of exclamation marks ever can.

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 10:28

whereaw · 06/12/2023 10:09

@pickledandpuzzled I 100% agree and I cannot understand why the collective call is not to root out this evil (Hamas and the like) and to keep ordinary, innocent people and children safe. The Pro Palestine view is so unbelievably misguided, although I understand most people who have it do have good intentions deep down. Yet I can see how it is putting Isreal against the world and therefore inflicting the very opposite of what the believers would say they want to do.

Totally agree

Yet if you explain this to some people they make ridiculous arguments or use their beloved key words to try and emotional manipulate the conversation. If they could just listen and try to computer that they are not helping the Gazens by ignoring the suffering of Israelis or arguing that rapes never happened. They are just making the average person move away from having empathy for there course

stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 10:32

@SunsetOnTheHorizon what you said was horrific. 'They had ample chance to rape them'.... what children?

Why do the feeble of mind always wheel out Norman finklstein. Holocaust survivor you know.....

(That is not a personal attack it's an observation)

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 10:35

copiley695 · 06/12/2023 10:21

Most if not all of the woman who were raped during the attacks are Jewish, the rapes you are trying to deny or blame on the victims.

I think some people misunderstand the Me Too Unless You Are A Jew statements

Or they deliberately are trying to twist it

When people make that statement what they are saying is these horrific numerous cases of sexual abuse and rape are being ignored by fuckwits because they are associated with Israel and Jewish people

Nobody is saying other groups of people didn't get the same attacks. What people are saying is that Hamas did this and lots of people/ organisations are trying to ignore /discredit/say they weren't that bad because it is associated with Israel and Jewish people

Therefore Me Too Unless You Are A Jew makes perfect sense and is the right statement to use

stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 10:36

@Parkingt111 whether you conflate support of Hamas with support for Palestine on those marches or not it's clear that some do. We have seen that.

SomeCatFromJapan · 06/12/2023 10:38

On the flip side - why are the Israeli hostages being released with massive smiles on thier faces?!

The threats and the strong tranquilisers.

Where are the witness accounts of the rapes!? The doctor reports?! Anything!?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181

It's all in there. It's been posted repeatedly but you seem to have missed it?

Captain Maayan

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence that Hamas fighters committed horrific sexual violence in Israel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67629181

SunsetOnTheHorizon · 06/12/2023 10:38

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SomeCatFromJapan · 06/12/2023 10:39

So much rage, denial and upset at Jewish women's sexual trauma being centred on one thread.

Trulywonderful · 06/12/2023 10:40

Children were raped too. There is evidence of two girls. One 13 and the other 14 with their underwear ripped off and bloody down there both shot afterwards. People lie but photos in this case don't. If anyone wants to argue that those little girls were not brutally raped they deserve locking up because we don't want this mindset walking around in decent society

Anotherdayanotherdiet · 06/12/2023 10:56

Why did the rush to defend‘ordinary Palestinians’ caught up in Israel’s response result in statements right left and centre, but so few about the October 7th attacks.

I can’t really remember who said what immediately after the attacks to be honest, so can’t really comment on that. Whose statements are you thinking of? The UN?

stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 10:59

@SunsetOnTheHorizon some people just don't like facts.
I have yet to see anything on here that fits with ' I will let you all swim in the cesspit of hate' or would you like us to join you in the hot tub of denial?

It's such lazy, emotive, Frankly bollocks.

What do you want from this thread with such a specific title?

MercanDede · 06/12/2023 11:07

stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 01:13

@MercanDede I wasn't talking about one specific thread.

I literally picked things from different threads and will show to Mumsnet if you like.

You are naive to think Hamas will let those hostages go though. The soldiers. They have said as much. Kfir?

I have skin in the game. I have family there. So one would argue plenty of experience.

I don’t think I’m being naive because Hamas has let go over 100 hostages in return for Israel letting go their administrative detainees and prisoners that were also women and children. The vast majority of hostages that Hamas has let go were women and children The only hostages that were men that were let go by Hamas were not Israeli hostages, but 3rd country foreign hostages.

I don’t understand why you think Hamas would not have let go the rest of hostages when they have already let go hostages if the ceasefire had continued. Even with the fighting having been resumed by Israel, they continue to indicate willingness to do so. Their announcements since the resumption of Israeli attacks have been no more hostage releases until Israel agrees to another ceasefire.

The one week ceasefire collapsed over an argument over letting go adult male civilian hostages before letting go adult female soldiers. Female soldiers captured during the Israeli attacks on military installations and inside Gaza are not hostages, they are legally and technically POWs. It did not collapse due to Hamas refusing to let go hostages, it collapsed over Israel wanting soldiers, POWs, back before hostages because they are women.

If Israel had just agreed with hostages first, then POWs which by the way is the norm in armed conflicts. Civilians always come before POWs. If Israel had agreed, then the male civilian hostages would likely all have been released by the end of this week and we would have seen the negotiations move on to releasing female soldier POWs, the first of whom would have likely been home by this weekend. By breaking off the ceasefire, Israel scuppered their chances for this and made it far more likely those female POWs will be sexually abused more than they were as the fighting grows more desperate. As Hamas terrorists lose their own men to the intense urban fighting, the surviving armed men will go back to their terror nests and they will take out their rage on the women POWs. In addition, we cannot ignore the danger of friendly fire. The hostages and POWs are now more likely to be killed by friendly fire given the intensity of the bombing and on ground tank shelling and fighting.

I understand Israel thought this stance was unreasonable to let male hostages go before female POWs, but the alternative they chose from continuing the hostage/prisoner releases was a choice to sacrifice the health and most likely, lives of male hostages and all POWs, male and female.

This choice has also massively reduced international support for Israel’s ongoing attacks on and in Gaza as well as the West Bank because not only has Israel sacrificed Israelis, its military is nowhere near adequately protecting Palestinian civilians as it battles Hamas.

stomachameleon · 06/12/2023 11:21

likely been home by this weekend. By breaking off the ceasefire, Israel scuppered their chances for this and made it far more likely those female POWs will be sexually abused more than they were as the fighting grows more desperate. As Hamas terrorists lose their own men to the intense urban fighting, the surviving armed men will go back to their terror nests and they will take out their rage on the women POWs

Wow. I Don't know what to say to that.