Israel has bombed the front of a hospital

[TakeMe2Insanity]

Israel has bombed the gates of the Al Shalha hospital.

Everyone knows displaced families are sheltering in and near hospitals.

@ColonelDax Yes, it literally is happening.

This is the scale of the situation people are finding babies on the side of the road with papers saying their names and info. How desperate and dire must the situation be?

The lack of humanity on these threads astounds me every day especially as this forum is called mumsnet.

The Israeli government have believed that since 2008 the Al Shifa hospital has been used as a cover for Hamas operations. Moreover Hamas have carried out many of their interviews from the Al Shifa carpark.

The fantasy that somehow THIS TIME, that THIS HOSPITAL definitely wasn't a cover for Hamas operations seems absurd. They have used hospitals, schools, mosques, apartment blocks, anything they can, to cover their operations. They actively put civilians in harms way, and in October they actively decided that civilians at a festival were legitimate military targets.

This is so clearly Hamas' fault, that blaming Israel for this is patently absurd. I cannot fathom how anyone of genuine and honest intention can think 'Israel bears sole responsibility for this'. I can understand why people think Israel are partially to blame, or that they share a role of responsibility in the wider conflict. I think people of good and honest intentions can disagree about that and even if I disagree, I can conceive of how such a belief can exist. But to blame Israel for striking at military targets who continually hide in, and use civilian infrastructure to conceal their brutality is just....well it's victim blaming really isn't it?

Hamas do this deliberately. The only way to reduce civilian casualties in this context would be boots on the ground. And the IDF won't do this, because boots on the ground = more Israeli soldiers dead.

As the saying goes - "the idea isn't to die gloriously for your country, it's to make some dumb bastard die for his." Seriously - what possibly motivation could Israel have for putting their own soldiers in harms way, to try and reduce (note it won't eliminate civilian deaths, because when all the people with guns are wearing civilian clothes and hide in groups of women and old people, their WILL be collateral damage) civilian deaths, when that is the deliberate strategy of the enemy? They want their civilians to die, because that suits their propoganda war. When Israel call ahead and advise that a certain building is going to be struck, Hamas make women and children climb onto the roof of the building and stand there visible. IT'S A DELIBERATE TACTIC TO EXPOSE CIVILIANS TO THE DANGER OF DEATH. Hamas cause this. They do it deliberately, again and again.

Al Shifa hospital has been believed to be a major centre of Hamas operations since 2008 (wiki link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_Hospital#2008%E2%80%932009_war). That's why it's being struck. Because Hamas are hiding there.

Can we all remember it isn't "just" one huge hospital. It is all the hospitals in Gaza that are being targeted. This clearly shows the intention of the IDF is to rip apart the Palestinian people.

I can’t add the image of the lady who found the baby and the baby as its saying the image is too big. Its from eyeonpalestine

Indiscriminate bombing, i.e bombs being dropped with no designated military target?

As opposed to bombs being targeted at combatants also killing some civilians?

That's a very bold claim that I'm sure you can evidence.

11k people have died
60 belonged to hamas.

@ColonelDax "some civilians" you can't be serious. 65 members of Hamas and over 11 THOUSAND innocent civilians. There is no justifying that no matter how hard you try.

Also killing some civilians???? ... 99.5% of people killed have been civilians and not military targets!!!

They are asking all 22 hospitals in the north to evacuate. It's a demolish project for Israel.

The medical team have asked for the UN to investigate the hospital and to see what is happening there. Why is Israel blocking this?

Israel cut off everyone's phone signals for a reason. The IDF aree surrounding all the hospitals and are going to massacre the patients and call it "collateral damage."

It is a massacre
It is torture
It is criminal

For comparison with another war :

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 9,614 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of September, 2023. Furthermore, 17,535 people were reported to have been injured. However, OHCHR specified that the real numbers could be higher.

We won't question those figures at all will we. I'm sure all of the 11k

1. Actually existed

and 2. Definitely werent Hamas fighter.

Given that the only figures available are literally provided by Hamas, who aren't exactly 'precise' with their numbers.

Remember the Israeli rocket attack a few weeks ago that killed 'hundreds', then when it was shown to actually have been a Hamas missile that dropped short, the death toll was revised down to a few tens... 😂

I think you are getting your posts mixed up.

You're actually describing the Oct 7 attack there rather than a legitimate military operation.

Happy to help.

I don't wish you or anyone any harm. I just want this all to stop and for the innocent children, men and women to have a life without suffering. I will not engage with you now. Peace to you and your family.

I’m more than happy for them to be counted by someone independent

oh wait. Israel does not allow it.

also this was on the news the other day. It was told by a government that stands with Israel

Death toll in Gaza likely ‘higher than is being reported’: US official

so yeah we shouldn’t believe these numbers as they’re likely to be higher

Some Israeli newspapers have reported 20,000 deaths. I don't know if they are inflating the numbers to brag about them or if they are more accurate. I don't know. It's so sad.

That will happen when Hamas are gone. Not before.

Two former prosecutors have called on the ICC to issue warrants for exactly that
They happen to have extensively more knowledge than you

@Hiddenmnetter Netanyahu seemed happy to prop up Hamas all these years. I wonder why 🤔

You conveniently ignored the second part of my post.

It's absolutely right that Israel end the Hamas threat once and for all. Unfortunately that's going to lead to high civilian deaths, remember, that's exactly what Hamas wants. It's why they place their positions inside protected places and don't let civilians leave. Be honest, you know this is happening, it just doesn't fit your preferred narrative so you pretend it isn't a thing.

If Israel do nothing, you get another Oct 7, and then another, and then another until the end of time. It would be a second Holocaust the like of which the world has never seen.

Would those (much larger number of) Jewish deaths be better than this purely because they would be spread over a longer period of time?

Do you accept there is a moral difference between accidentally killing civilians because your enemy hides in a hospital or a school, and deliberately targeting civilians for systematic torture, rape, burning alive and execution? I really hope you do.

Are these the same ones that said the Hamas missile that dropped short a few weeks ago was 'definately' an Israeli rocket attack? Until it obviously wasn't and then we never heard about it again?

A great deal of what’s said on this thread turns - for both sides - on what information is available.

As with any democratic government or other powerful interest I’d be wary of accepting everything that Israel says and shows. But we can have some confidence in the statements of an open liberal state with the checks and balances of its legislature, civil service and judiciary. The anti-Israel arguments depend only on information given by or with the agreement of Hamas.

Hamas is a death cult, backed by Iran, with the avowed, written aim of destroying Israel and all Jews. We all know what Hamas did in its attack on Israel. The details are so shocking as to be almost beyond comprehension.

Why are people so willing to accept the word of such a group? For god’s sake consider who you’re getting into bed with.

Sorry are we resorting to “it’s a Jewish conspiracy?”

Hamas were democratically elected. Then suspended all democracy in Gaza. They have siphoned aid money and taken funding from Iran and other terrorist groups for decades. Hamas leaders are billionaires. They live in luxury in places like Qatar while ordinary Palestinians struggle.

Netenyahu has not “propped them up”- he’s fought them for most of his premiership, and for the most part attempted to deal with them where possible. But the supposed political body, the PLA and Mahmoud Abbas, are toothless and pointless. Hamas are the political leadership in Gaza. And they live and die by their sworn statement to “wipe Israel off the map.”

Netanyahu seemed happy to prop up Hamas all these years. I wonder why

To play them off against the leaders of the West Bank apparently. I doubt anyone in Israel had any idea Hamas were capable of the level of violence they recently inflicted on Israel. For that incompetence at least their government should be punished.

Netanyahu's brother Yonatan was killed at Entebbe. 🙄

He isn't inclined to prop up anyone who wants the Jewish people wiped out of existence.