Page 9 | To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

MistyMooPup · 2023-10-10T11:14:29+00:00

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed. I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite. I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

bombastix · 10/10/2023 22:29

Historical context isn't going to frame Hamas into reasonable conduct.

I am just wondering whether people posting here understand that the U.K. supports Israel (though it believes in a two state solution) and that means it is very likely to arm, provide technical assistance etc.

20questions · 10/10/2023 22:30

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anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:30

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:28

Yes well, good luck with that. Like, wow, you've never come across a free speech argument before. Wow. Just wow.

Show quote history

Free speech is very different from hate speech, which is what you appear to be encouraging in your post. To quote: “I, and many others, want to hear them”.

soddingspiderseason · 10/10/2023 22:33

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:25

Israel has now already killed more Palestinians in the last 48 hours than were killed by Hamas. Once an acceptable level of carnage has been wrought on the Palestian people, perhaps Israel will consider starting to abide by the dozens of UN Resolutons which it has been flouting for decades - and of course for decades before Hamas even existed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/830-dead-in-gaza-since-saturday-as-shelling-hits-school-hospitals-and-homes

The carnage wrought on the Palestinian people is because they are living under a dictatorship of Jihadi ideologists who don't give a monkeys about how many innocent people get killed - on either side. Stop excusing terrorism. They are the same as ISIS. The Palestinians need rid of Hamas and Hezbollah. Time to stop pretending they are "freedom fighters" and face facts.

ForFriends · 10/10/2023 22:34

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anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:35

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:28

@anonymousamy

The number of Israelis killed since the weekend is now estimated to be more than 1,000. That’s in four days

And Israel has already killed up to 1000 Palestinians in the last 48 hours. Gaza City is already in ruins. And of course this is barely reported on by Western media - as proved by your post. So, yes, the UN’s 20x Palestinian deaths (or more) estimate between 2008 and today still stands.

You seem to have a very loose grasp of the facts. The UN didn’t report 20 times more Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths since 2008, because that is factually incorrect. The only person stating that is you.

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:36

YouJustDoYou · 10/10/2023 22:12

There's no excuse for supporting terrorists who gleefully murder children with smiles on their faces.

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There is terrorism and murdering of children on both sides. Let’s condemn both sides rather than pretend that horrific acts in this conflict are the preserve of Palestinians.

https://actionaid.org/news/2023/deadliest-year-nearly-40-children-among-over-230-palestinians-killed-israeli-forces-and

‘Deadliest year’: Nearly 40 children among over 230 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces and settlers in 2022.

ActionAid is deeply concerned about the increasing attacks and excessive use of force imposed by Israeli forces and settlers against Palestinians, particularly the impact this is having on women and girls living in the region.

https://actionaid.org/news/2023/deadliest-year-nearly-40-children-among-over-230-palestinians-killed-israeli-forces-and

giddymonday · 10/10/2023 22:39

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:28

@anonymousamy

The number of Israelis killed since the weekend is now estimated to be more than 1,000. That’s in four days

And Israel has already killed up to 1000 Palestinians in the last 48 hours. Gaza City is already in ruins. And of course this is barely reported on by Western media - as proved by your post. So, yes, the UN’s 20x Palestinian deaths (or more) estimate between 2008 and today still stands.

and let's not forget that this Iran backed attack came out of the blue so we can't really blame Israel for defending itself

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:40

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:30

Free speech is very different from hate speech, which is what you appear to be encouraging in your post. To quote: “I, and many others, want to hear them”.

Show quote history

Declaring things to be so doesn't make them so. I, among many other people, absolutely don't accept the concept of 'hate speech'.

It's ironic actually, those of us who oppose the concept of 'hate speech' always said it would be extended to demanding Big Brother censor anyone 'encouraging' 'hate speech'. And here we are, right on schedule. Next it will be anyone 'tolerating' 'hate speech'. Then anyone not being actively 'anti-hate speech'. And on and on. What a moronic ideology. And you want power to control the information I get? I don't think so.

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:40

It’s annoying when posters claiming to have an interest in the complex historical context of the situation undermine the thread with bogus facts.

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:41

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:35

You seem to have a very loose grasp of the facts. The UN didn’t report 20 times more Palestinian deaths than Israeli deaths since 2008, because that is factually incorrect. The only person stating that is you.

Show quote history

Come on, stop lying now. The data source is below and it’s a widely reported figure even throughout Westene mainstream media.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Data on casualties

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https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:44

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:40

Declaring things to be so doesn't make them so. I, among many other people, absolutely don't accept the concept of 'hate speech'.

It's ironic actually, those of us who oppose the concept of 'hate speech' always said it would be extended to demanding Big Brother censor anyone 'encouraging' 'hate speech'. And here we are, right on schedule. Next it will be anyone 'tolerating' 'hate speech'. Then anyone not being actively 'anti-hate speech'. And on and on. What a moronic ideology. And you want power to control the information I get? I don't think so.

Show quote history

Declaring things to be so doesn't make them so. I, among many other people, absolutely don't accept the concept of 'hate speech'.

And there we have it folks.

AbraKedavra · 10/10/2023 22:44

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Ibizafun · 10/10/2023 22:44

20questions · 10/10/2023 20:56

All those condoning Hamas - a rabid bunch of barbaric, medieval, female crushing maniacs...anyone who applauded their actions this weekend....I guess you'd like to live under their rule one day.
Hamas don't give a damn about their own people. A huge part of problem of the conditions the Palestinians in Gaza are living in is because Hamas spends all the money given to them on building war tunnels and amassing weaponry. It suits them to keep their people downtrodden - helps to fan the hatred they have instilled in them from birth.

Hamas does nothing - there is peace.
Israel does nothing - they are obliterated.

Part of the reason this terrorist act was planned is because Israel and Saudi Arabia were heading towards some form of peace along with other parts of the Middle East. Hamas and Iran needed to derail this. They do not want peace. Never have.
You cannot reason with those who will accept nothing less than obliteration of a people.

Simply this.

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:45

@anonymousamy

Not a Trump supporter by any chance?

“According to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, at least 6,400 Palestinians and 308 Israelis died due to the conflict from 2008 to 2023”

-Source UN (plus widely reported by literally scores of mainstream media sources)

RubyGemStone · 10/10/2023 22:46

@Pollyputhekettleon Hamas are Islamists and effectively share the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood. The MB although established in Egypt has given the Egyptians hell and is unwelcome in many Arab countries. MB and Iran (as i understand it anyway) also support Yemen in the war with the Saudis. So yes both Islamic , but different branches with different goals.

Also think Egypt has upcoming elections and are trying to keep stable due to that.

If anyone is interested in this sort of thing, the podcast CONFLICTED is very good.

‎CONFLICTED on Apple Podcasts

‎History · 2023

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/conflicted/id1443491069

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:47

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:41

Come on, stop lying now. The data source is below and it’s a widely reported figure even throughout Westene mainstream media.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

Show quote history

I’ve just looked at your link, which states 308 Israeli deaths since 2008. So you have conveniently ignored the 1,000-plus Israelis who have been killed by Hamas in the last four days, taking that death toll of 308 to at least 1,308. Why are you misrepresenting the truth?

giddymonday · 10/10/2023 22:47

just so much blatant, unashamed explicit antisemitism on this forum today..

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:49

@20questions

Hamas does nothing - there is peace

Absolutley absurd. Peace is homelessness? Poverty? Having your land stolen? History clearly demonstrates that in times of relative peace, Israel speeds up the land grab and forced settlements. Israel is happy to play the long game - the military cards are massively stacked in its favour - but it will not be satisfied until Palestine is a term with historical relevance only.

SideBob · 10/10/2023 22:49

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Some serious metal gymnastics here. Israel are happy to have terrorist stacks so they can kill Palestinians?

Not the fact that terrorists invaded and murdered a bunch of people? Yeah. That has nothing to do with it, just a coincidence

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:50

RubyGemStone · 10/10/2023 22:46

@Pollyputhekettleon Hamas are Islamists and effectively share the ideology of the Muslim Brotherhood. The MB although established in Egypt has given the Egyptians hell and is unwelcome in many Arab countries. MB and Iran (as i understand it anyway) also support Yemen in the war with the Saudis. So yes both Islamic , but different branches with different goals.

Also think Egypt has upcoming elections and are trying to keep stable due to that.

If anyone is interested in this sort of thing, the podcast CONFLICTED is very good.

Edited

Oh yes I remember Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood problems. MB headquarters is here in Ireland I believe. Didn't realize Hamas were buddies with them. Makes sense though.

soddingspiderseason · 10/10/2023 22:51

giddymonday · 10/10/2023 22:47

just so much blatant, unashamed explicit antisemitism on this forum today..

Completely agree. It's appalling.

Ibizafun · 10/10/2023 22:51

JustAMinutePleass · 10/10/2023 22:11

The media doesn’t report 90% of what Israeli soldiers do in Palestine. Rapes, beheadings of women and children, children being burned alive. Hamas is using Israeli military tactics against them. And you must remember that Palestine isn’t just a Muslim Country - it is a Christian country too. Palestinian Jews exist too. Israel’s government is killing them all indiscriminately because the state itself was built on the basis of European Colonialism

No, Israeli soldiers do not rape and behead people in Gaza. You are an antisemite who, in your cesspit of hate, is hoping to mitigate the sub human behaviour now on display for all to see.

etmoietmoietmoi · 10/10/2023 22:52

Not all the Zionists, obviously. I mean I'm not a frothing anti-semite. Actually, is it even anti-semitic to have a legitimate conspiracycriticism of the Israeli government? Come to think of it, anti-semitism doesn't even mean being anti-Jews. Especially as most Jews are just European converts with no ties to Palestine.

Does anyone here speak double Dutch that can translate this please?

ForFriends · 10/10/2023 22:53

BBC hasn't yet managed to specifically report the beheadings of infants and children in a Kibbutz. Unashamed biased reporting.