Page 8 | To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

MistyMooPup · 2023-10-10T11:14:29+00:00

Not all of Israel. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said he will obliterate Hamas. But undoubtedly hundred if not thousands of civilians will now be killed. I’m not sure what Hamas thought the end game if this would be? What have the Iranians convinced them of? This was a sophisticated operation, outside help was given for definite. I’m not sure it’s possible to rationalise with dehumanised terrorists, neither am I sure what the end game will be, but I just can’t understand what Hamas expected if not a total war/strikes from Israel in retaliation.

20questions · 10/10/2023 22:04

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 21:54

Apparently Hamas have engaged in terrorism against the Egyptians which is why they restrict access from Gaza. I don't know why Hamas did that. There are probably other reasons.

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Because that's the sum total of what Hamas is - take away their blood thirsty terrorist raison d'etre and all that would be left is a puddle on the floor. Terrorism and war is their oxygen.

bombastix · 10/10/2023 22:05

It's so clear, all the little anti-semites creeping about with their whataboutery. Depressing to see on Mumsnet.

SnowflakeCity · 10/10/2023 22:07

Time4TERF · 10/10/2023 21:49

Can anyone explain why more countries aren't offering asylum to the Gazans/ Palestinians?

Are you talking about now because the answer obviously would be that they can't leave. Their only way out is Egypt and that is not straight forward, the crossing is tightly controlled.

If you are talking in general, I'm in Ireland not the UK but Palestinians are welcome to put in asylum claims here and they have done in the past.

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:10

saffronsoup · 10/10/2023 16:37

Israel took Palestine hostage years ago. That occupation and control has led to horrible conditions, many atrocities, and many deaths. Now Hamas is taking Israeli's hostage, albeit in much smaller numbers and without the power of Israel to do it en masse so it is more barbaric door to door hostage taking.

Both sides are retaliating for wrongs done. What they have in common is neither side really cares about Palestinian civiliansor sees their lives as having much value. Both militia are power hungry.

Palestians can no more save themselves from the rage and control of Israel than the Israeli hostages can from the rage and control of Hamas. Both governments are really only interesting in inflicting pain and suffering.

I feel for the innocent citizens on both sides. They aren't the ones wanting all this death and destruction and war. However in the current context Israel are the HAVEs and Palestinians are the HAVE NOTs. Of course the Palestinians will fight back just like the Israeli hostages did when being captured. Captured people tend to fight for the life and their right to live.

Agree with this.

iamenougheveryday · 10/10/2023 22:10

SnowflakeCity · 10/10/2023 22:07

Are you talking about now because the answer obviously would be that they can't leave. Their only way out is Egypt and that is not straight forward, the crossing is tightly controlled.

If you are talking in general, I'm in Ireland not the UK but Palestinians are welcome to put in asylum claims here and they have done in the past.

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You are wrong. The crossing is not tightly controlled. The crossing has been closed by the Egyptians.

JustAMinutePleass · 10/10/2023 22:11

The media doesn’t report 90% of what Israeli soldiers do in Palestine. Rapes, beheadings of women and children, children being burned alive. Hamas is using Israeli military tactics against them. And you must remember that Palestine isn’t just a Muslim Country - it is a Christian country too. Palestinian Jews exist too. Israel’s government is killing them all indiscriminately because the state itself was built on the basis of European Colonialism

YouJustDoYou · 10/10/2023 22:12

MistyMooPup · 10/10/2023 21:59

I am currently engaged in a whatsapp conversation with a friend who sent me a reel about how only now the media is paying attention and that the atrocities in Palestine have been ignored. I don’t believe this is the case at all?

There's no excuse for supporting terrorists who gleefully murder children with smiles on their faces.

Flatiron · 10/10/2023 22:13

FoodCentre · 10/10/2023 21:56

It's not a competition at all, it's horrific for all. But being kept in custody versus having your child killed in front of you? In that specific example, I think it's silly to claim that they're of equal standing.

I think you may have misunderstood the context of my response to the quote - Israel does not threaten to kill the Palestinian children in Israeli custody - in my original post. The post I quoted from was referring to the threat to kill the Israeli hostages, including children, held in Gaza, not to the children massacred on the kibbutz.

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:13

only saw men cheering in Gaza but there are men AND women cheering the decapitated babies, raped and murdered women (even a pregnant woman who had her stomach ripped open and the FETUS decapitated) in the UK.

Oh my god, that is absolutely horrific.

I can’t believe there are people in the UK who actively support and cheer on this evil. There are no words.

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:14

bombastix · 10/10/2023 22:05

It's so clear, all the little anti-semites creeping about with their whataboutery. Depressing to see on Mumsnet.

Are you denying the historical context of the Palestine-Israel conflict? Which over the last 15 years has seen more than 20 times as many Palestinian deaths (including countless children) as Israeli deaths. Context is not whataboutery. It’s about understanding the historical paths which led to today so that future paths can take alternate routes.

Museya15 · 10/10/2023 22:15

JustAMinutePleass · 10/10/2023 22:11

The media doesn’t report 90% of what Israeli soldiers do in Palestine. Rapes, beheadings of women and children, children being burned alive. Hamas is using Israeli military tactics against them. And you must remember that Palestine isn’t just a Muslim Country - it is a Christian country too. Palestinian Jews exist too. Israel’s government is killing them all indiscriminately because the state itself was built on the basis of European Colonialism

Whatever. 🇮🇱

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:15

bombastix · 10/10/2023 22:05

It's so clear, all the little anti-semites creeping about with their whataboutery. Depressing to see on Mumsnet.

Any antisemitic posts should result in an immediate ban. I trust that will be the case, @MNHQ?

bombastix · 10/10/2023 22:18

I am not ignorant of the history and origin of the Israeli state.

However, there seems to be a lot of ignorance here about the UK and Israel. They are our friends and allies.

People in the U.K. cheering and bringing "what about" to the current actions of Hamas might do well to remember that.

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:19

SnowflakeCity · 10/10/2023 22:07

Are you talking about now because the answer obviously would be that they can't leave. Their only way out is Egypt and that is not straight forward, the crossing is tightly controlled.

If you are talking in general, I'm in Ireland not the UK but Palestinians are welcome to put in asylum claims here and they have done in the past.

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The border to Egypt is tightly controlled, among other things, because Hamas came through it and attacked Egypt, right?

Flatiron · 10/10/2023 22:21

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:14

Are you denying the historical context of the Palestine-Israel conflict? Which over the last 15 years has seen more than 20 times as many Palestinian deaths (including countless children) as Israeli deaths. Context is not whataboutery. It’s about understanding the historical paths which led to today so that future paths can take alternate routes.

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Historical context is inconvenient to a simplistic world view.

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:22

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:15

Any antisemitic posts should result in an immediate ban. I trust that will be the case, @MNHQ?

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Silencing them won't make them go away. I, and many others, want to hear them, because we actually want to understand the world as it is, warts and all. That's leaving aside entirely the obvious problem that people don't agree on what is or is not antisemitic, racist, islamophobic, sexist, transphobic, and all the rest of it. Ignore them if you can't handle reading them.

soddingspiderseason · 10/10/2023 22:22

JustAMinutePleass · 10/10/2023 22:11

The media doesn’t report 90% of what Israeli soldiers do in Palestine. Rapes, beheadings of women and children, children being burned alive. Hamas is using Israeli military tactics against them. And you must remember that Palestine isn’t just a Muslim Country - it is a Christian country too. Palestinian Jews exist too. Israel’s government is killing them all indiscriminately because the state itself was built on the basis of European Colonialism

This is complete nonsense. The media have been reporting on what's happening in Gaza and the West Bank for many years. 4 years ago the Labour Party conference was draped in Palestinian flags. It's hardly an unknown issue. That people are still excusing the horrific actions of the evil terrorists of Hamas is making me feel physically ill.

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:23

Are you denying the historical context of the Palestine-Israel conflict? Which over the last 15 years has seen more than 20 times as many Palestinian deaths (including countless children) as Israeli deaths. Context is not whataboutery. It’s about understanding the historical paths which led to today so that future paths can take alternate routes.

Where are you getting the “more than 20 times” statistic from? Because according to the UN, “roughly 6,400 Palestinians and 300 Israelis had been killed in the ongoing conflict since 2008, not counting the recent fatalities”.

The number of Israelis killed since the weekend is now estimated to be more than 1,000. That’s in four days.

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:24

Flatiron · 10/10/2023 22:21

Historical context is inconvenient to a simplistic world view.

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Absolutely. That's why I keep asking pro-Palestinian people questions about the history of this. Unfortunately they seem determined to only go back as far as 1948, and the reasons are becoming obvious. One told me it's because there's no point going back further than living memory! The person you're responding to chose 15 years as historical context. Amazing stuff. Of course this isn't what you meant...

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:24

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:22

Silencing them won't make them go away. I, and many others, want to hear them, because we actually want to understand the world as it is, warts and all. That's leaving aside entirely the obvious problem that people don't agree on what is or is not antisemitic, racist, islamophobic, sexist, transphobic, and all the rest of it. Ignore them if you can't handle reading them.

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You want to hear antisemitic views? Wow. Reported.

CornishClott · 10/10/2023 22:24

Isoqueen · 10/10/2023 12:45

This will not end well. I just hope the whole world doesn’t get dragged into it but I think it will. The Americans have vested interests in wars and we will all follow their lead.

A lot of people in Israel are American citizens or have dual Citizenship including some of the hostages taken .

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:25

Israel has now already killed more Palestinians in the last 48 hours than were killed by Hamas. Once an acceptable level of carnage has been wrought on the Palestian people, perhaps Israel will consider starting to abide by the dozens of UN Resolutons which it has been flouting for decades - and of course for decades before Hamas even existed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/830-dead-in-gaza-since-saturday-as-shelling-hits-school-hospitals-and-homes

More than 900 dead in Gaza since Saturday as shelling hits school, hospitals and homes

‘There is no safe place in Gaza right now’ say humanitarian workers, as Israel bombs sole border crossing with Egypt, preventing refugees’ escape

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/10/830-dead-in-gaza-since-saturday-as-shelling-hits-school-hospitals-and-homes

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:26

20questions · 10/10/2023 22:04

Because that's the sum total of what Hamas is - take away their blood thirsty terrorist raison d'etre and all that would be left is a puddle on the floor. Terrorism and war is their oxygen.

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Yes but I want to know why they attacked a state run by fellow muslims. Not Islamic enough for them I suppose? Too friendly with the west or something?

Pollyputhekettleon · 10/10/2023 22:28

anonymousamy · 10/10/2023 22:24

You want to hear antisemitic views? Wow. Reported.

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Yes well, good luck with that. Like, wow, you've never come across a free speech argument before. Wow. Just wow.

anotherside · 10/10/2023 22:28

@anonymousamy

The number of Israelis killed since the weekend is now estimated to be more than 1,000. That’s in four days

And Israel has already killed up to 1000 Palestinians in the last 48 hours. Gaza City is already in ruins. And of course this is barely reported on by Western media - as proved by your post. So, yes, the UN’s 20x Palestinian deaths (or more) estimate between 2008 and today still stands.