Is this a red flag? (Yelling)

[seriousquestion26]

Can I ask for advice on how to handle this situation

I’ve been in a relationship with a man for 3 years , living together for 1. No kids (I’m mid 40s, he’s mid 50s). He was with someone for 20 years, 1 university aged child, she seems fine with him so no red flags there (she left him for someone else)

For the first time ever he shouted at me today … the reason was I heard a noise (worried it was a rat) and shouted for him to come down quickly (in case he could hear)

Apparently ‘being asked to drop everything’ is annoying to him. I explained that it was urgent…
This is v out of character- he’s usually v mild mannered

For context we are due to get married in a few months - I am the high earner in the relationship and it’s my house (he does a bit of freelancing)

Im concerned as I’m a bit vulnerable at the moment having lost my job 2 weeks ago (so now at home in the day focusing on my job search). I think he misses having the house to himself in the day & may be worried about money (he has serious savings from his earlier working life & inheritance)

I left & went back to my home office

Planning to tell him I won’t be yelled at (it might be overkill to say ‘so that again & the wedding is off /you need to leave’ - or maybe not?)

Anything else I need to do? Like refuse to spend time with him etc..?

Wary as my cousin’s (now ex) H started becoming abusive after marriage & ramped it up after pregnancy…

I can manage financially alone & fund most things including mortgage anyway

WWYD? Any advice for me please?

@TheFishFish, @ColdAsAWitches: Thank you for your helpful comments

I think I started this thread as I was upset about being yelled at … I DO want him to come quickly if I call because eg I’ve hurt myself/there’s a fire/leak etc in our house (and for me a rat has that kevel
of urgency)

I‘m hardly trying to ‘train a dog’ & there are lots of things I do solely to please my partner (mainly watching boring films & joining him in a hobby that doesn’t interest me much) to meet his needs for companionship. In return I want him to meet my need for physical safety…

I’m very aware I have little to gain and much to risk financially from marriage, but I have always wanted to be a wife not a girlfriend so 🤷🏻‍♀️

Im going to give him a bit of space today and see what gets said, and then try to talk later to understand what is going on for him

I think I need to look at how he treats me over my job search period (which I hope will be just a few months) and think seriously if I have any more concerns re the wedding (I don’t have cold feet and it is reactive to think shouting once means call off the wedding , but I also think I am right to not ignore it)

@BusyGreySnail: you seem to be arguing they it’s ok to be unpleasant/shout at someone, or just want to find a reason to disagree!

You'd better run your situation by a lawyer before you marry him. He will benefit from the marriage and you stand to lose half of your biggest financial asset if things go south. With your job loss and him being cheap, he's going to resent you if he has to spend more on you when you've been picking up more for him. He won't want to be financing your treats that you mean when you say you like to enjoy life.

As for the shouting, seeing a rat is not an emergency. But his response was also inappropriate. He doesn't want you to bother him.

No, I am not. But i think in a lifelong relationship we are entitled to be humans. which might mean that we are grumpy sometimes, or get annoyed when someone shouts for us in the middle of us doing something, to be stressed out, or not feeling the best or whatever. I also think it's manipulative and controlling to threaten ending a relationship when someone isn't perfect or acts exactly how you want them to all the time. It's also quite extreme to take such drastic decisions over one uncharacteristic incident. Some of the language you have used about him "beahving", not being grumpy, coming when you call etc, with the marriage stick as consequences, comes across as concerning.

You have given very little details about what actually happened, and about your OH's behaviour generally, so it's quite difficult to tell if there's more to it. As i said to other posters and to you, you don't need to get married if you don't want to. Whether that's because you have concerns about him generally, have concerns about sharing your finances, or just aren't sure about it. But if we take what you've said at complete face value, the whole threatening to break off the marriage, or marry but not give him any rights to your shared home as you'd planned, all over this one incident seems extreme - and controlling - to me.

Can you explain the actual scenario if shouting?

There is a world of difference between you yelling upstairs and him then coming down and huffing off and yelling back that he doesn't want to be yelled at for trivial matters and him being in the same room and yelling close to your face or shouting and name calling to intimidate you.

So what did he yell, and from what distance?

Agree with this. Three years and no yelling!

I was thinking this. I would sit down with him and let him know no one has ever yelled at you, "this is not something we do here at MY place". I would postpone the wedding for now, tell him "I need to think if this is what I really want". Tell him if he yells again he's going to find himself another place.

If he yells a second time you give him a months notice and kick him out. End off.

The bar is low on MN.

@BiggerIsAlwaysBetter : thanks for asking, I was calling his name repeatedly to ask him to come downstairs (he was doing his hobby upstairs, not work)

He didn’t get in my face but did raise his voice in exasperation: I’m upset as I don’t think I did anything wrong- from my perspective a rodent in the house IS an emergency and I wanted him to be with me to see if anything came out

I was not frightened of aggression: he is not physically frightening. I was disappointed that his hobby is apparently more important than my safety (he doesn’t know why I was calling, it could have been a leak, fire etc). The one useful comment he made was ‘next time say why’

I am however concerned that I have made his life far too comfortable (since moving in with me he has basically retired, and then inherited a large sum), and that he is telling me he doesn’t want to be bothered with my needs … meanwhile he complains about me being on my phone in the evening when he wants company

We are mostly happy but I’m not here to be ‘trained’ by a man - nor do I want to be trapped in a marriage with a grumpy old man, while I am shouldering the financial burden while he sits on his inheritance

The financial inequality came about as I was earning well (& he was freelancing & renting) when we met. He now has a lot more financial security- and as of today I have less than I did recently

I think now is the time to address both issues: and I will be talking about both to him

It seems that he's benefitting from your money ie living more cheaply in your house, but you're not benefitting from his savings. To be properly fair he should be giving you half the money he's saving from the interest on his savings.

I would also feel very disturbed that someone was living in my house and resenting the fact that I was not out at work.

Also why is he stressed when he has a serious amount of savings? Does he just see you as an extra income stream that's been cut off?

I'm sorry, but as you've put it yourself, he has got exasperated once in three years. And now you think that his life is too easy and you're thinking of putting off getting married. I really think this is an overreaction. He's done nothing wrong in your entire relationship, but the first time there's a tiny misstep from him, you're reconsidering your whole life together. It's not fair or realistic to expect perfection from your partner at all times. Nobody can live up to an expectation like that!

^ @toiletpaperthief : I agree

The outcome of this today was I agreed if I call him downstairs I will say why, & keep it to critical things (he’s used to his own time as I was working in the office Monday-Friday until 2 weeks ago)

Meanwhile, I do expect to be treated fairly. I’m generous by nature but I expect him
to be an equal partner in a marriage: right now I feel like I’m subsidising him to retire in comfort (he could afford to live alone and retire now he has inherited but not in the expensive area we live in/in as nice a home).

My initial question was about how to communicate my boundaries - I see I need to do this in a calm way, without ultimatums etc

Meanwhile, I think I am right to think about what he is bringing to the relationship now I ‘need’ him more… I’ve been good about meeting his needs and I think it’s reasonable to expect the same

I think you sense the injustice and you sense that he's using you and just being nice so that he can keep his financial security. The shouting incident is him showing his true colours.

Meanwhile, as always happens on Mumsnet everyone is focusing on the wrong bit. It's absolutely bonkers that he's retired and lazing around in your home and you're working. You don't even seem as if you really like him.

@ColdAsAWitches: I AM over-reacting, I agree

He has not yelled at me before, he did have a massive strop when he moved in as I wasn’t ’welcoming’ enough (he left our home for several hours until I called him asking him to return) - I consider this a red flag, but again it happened at a stressful time

He is over-frugal and getting used to an easy life - as I am aware that no one is perfect, I might be tempted to do the same if I had the opportunity!

I was looking for advice about how to talk about the yelling & communicate my boundaries

The moving in strop was red flag 1, today was red flag 2 as far as I am concerned… he will have things he’s not so happy about with me, & I think we need to discuss them

He sounds awful, OP.

Totally agree.

i was in an abusive relationship and shouting is how it started. The first episode of shouting was after being together for about 5 years.

My Dh earns considerably more than me. I didn't know that if I shouted at him in a moment of stress that it would be grounds for him to try to do me out of half of our assets. Or that I was being monitored for flags before we married.

Honestly OP it's so obvious you don't love him or possibly don't even like him. You were so quick to point out the financial situation, like you expect him to be held to a different standard, It's like you think it's ok for a breadwinner to behave badly but not a dependant. He shouted once in 3 years when he heard a panicked shout which wasn't even a legitimate reason to disturb him. I absolutely hate shouting too but ffs he wasn't shouting abusively and you started it. Surely a loving person would ask what was wrong when his reaction was so out of character?

@OrganicDecafEarlGrey: yes you are right, I do think I am subsidising him: he benefits from nearly 30 years of my high earnings (& a small inheritance I received). Meanwhile he has the luxury to not spend his savings as he is living very cheaply in my home

I’m also younger so the likelihood is by the time I get to retire he won’t be around anymore- so he gets a companion as well as a comfortable retirement and I won’t have these

Id like him to use his savings to pay off the mortgage balance (he’d still be left with a large enough sum to eg buy a flat) - as id like to benefit from his finances (reduced pressure to earn) in exactly the way he benefits from mine!

I’d like to shift the balance between us - and if I sense he just sees me as ‘an income stream’ I may need to end things

Just sit with him and calmy let him know that no one shouts at you in your own home, that you're cancelling the wedding and that any more yelling will have you asking him to pack his things and move out. It's not "manipulative" like someone said above, it's you setting boundaries in a polite but straightforward manner.

I think he sounds like a pre-cocklodger getting warmed up. Prenups are useless in the UK, it won’t be upheld. Ready cash can be spent and diverted over time, your house won’t be. The home will be treated as a marital asset to be divided, his personal money may be gone by the time of divorce - a huge percentage of marriages end in divorce. If all you’re getting married for is having the rights of a spouse during medical treatment, get power of attorney. You’ve made it to mid 40s with assets, being the higher earner, and no draining man dragging you down. Don’t fuck it up now. He’s already taken your financial stability as a chance to semi-retire, don’t be taken for any more!

We are all human beings . We are not all meant to be deliriously happy and calm all the time . Most shout and express anger from time to time its important how we manage and control ourselves that's important .

I'd ask myself why I'd attribute so much to his shouting and make it a larger thing. He shouted because you shouted and he explained why. You then put 900 reasons against it and then question the whole relationship and him as a person. You've gone from 0 to 11 with zero basis apart from your own insecurity and vulnerability. IMO.

Read the thread, he also stropped off and went missing for hours another time.

There is a pattern.

the shouting apart, it sounds like you are having second thought so pay attention to them is my advice. Regarding the shouting it’s a no from me. I’ve been with my dh for many years and he has never shouted at me and if I’ve ever called him to come quickly in panic he has dropped what he’s doing and done just that. To be cross at me would never enter his head. He would just want to know I’m ok.

Can you not say to someone, "read the thread," and assume you're some intellectual genius that did something someone else didn't do? I responded to this, For the first time ever he shouted at me today … the reason was I heard a noise (worried it was a rat) and shouted for him to come down quickly (in case he could hear)

"Stropped off and went missing," does not indicate a pattern, IMO.

Stop trying to dictate others responses with sarcasm. It makes this site so tiring.

Are you looking for a reason to end the relationship? You don't need one, you clearly aren't comfortable and that is enough all by itself.

Yelling can be a subjective one, my teenager hears yelling when I am stern or annoyed, but I have not raised my voice. You need to spend way more time with this man before you marry him to resolve these issues.