Is this a red flag? (Yelling)

[seriousquestion26]

Can I ask for advice on how to handle this situation

I’ve been in a relationship with a man for 3 years , living together for 1. No kids (I’m mid 40s, he’s mid 50s). He was with someone for 20 years, 1 university aged child, she seems fine with him so no red flags there (she left him for someone else)

For the first time ever he shouted at me today … the reason was I heard a noise (worried it was a rat) and shouted for him to come down quickly (in case he could hear)

Apparently ‘being asked to drop everything’ is annoying to him. I explained that it was urgent…
This is v out of character- he’s usually v mild mannered

For context we are due to get married in a few months - I am the high earner in the relationship and it’s my house (he does a bit of freelancing)

Im concerned as I’m a bit vulnerable at the moment having lost my job 2 weeks ago (so now at home in the day focusing on my job search). I think he misses having the house to himself in the day & may be worried about money (he has serious savings from his earlier working life & inheritance)

I left & went back to my home office

Planning to tell him I won’t be yelled at (it might be overkill to say ‘so that again & the wedding is off /you need to leave’ - or maybe not?)

Anything else I need to do? Like refuse to spend time with him etc..?

Wary as my cousin’s (now ex) H started becoming abusive after marriage & ramped it up after pregnancy…

I can manage financially alone & fund most things including mortgage anyway

WWYD? Any advice for me please?

I agree with this. Is there anyone who hasnt shouted at their partner occasionally?

I’d say exactly the same to a man: if you’ve been living with someone for a year and you see a side of them you haven’t seen before that makes you question the relationship - of course you put marriage plans on hold. You’d be daft not to.

She also said:

"I was planning to ask him to buy into the house after our wedding but today has made me think I need to see how he behaves over time …"

She's gone on to say she is doing this to ensure he isn't grumpy and comes when she calls. Like she's training a dog...

I think you know. Trust your gut. If you've not got a pre nup now, you need to get your skates, on but personally I'd be sacking the wedding off altogether, being married to him will not benefit you, and you risk your home.

After a couple of medium long term relationships where they let their real self fly at points where they thought I was in the bag, ie pregnancy, moving in together I would absolutely trust your instincts on what's going on here, and to write a post on mumsnet about it, you're feeling unsettled.

You're old enough and wise enough to know when something feels off. Yes he shouted once in three years, but you were there, you know how it felt to YOU.

That is what you need to tune in to and act on.

So a different post.

And why shouldn't she delay the wedding to know him better? Women are always advised to delay marriage on MN until they know the man better.

Why do you think she owes him marriage?

Me. I don't shout at people.

@BusyGreySnail: he isn’t concerned about marriage particularly (but seems to be enjoying the wedding planning)

He has a high level of savings and has spoken before about buying a rental property/vacation house …

My concern is that if this is the start of a lack of respect then I will be married to a man who has a claim on my assets (house & v decent pension pot built before I met him), while I have no claim on his (savings in his name from before we lived together and money he has inherited- which I don’t want anyway)

My concerns are largely ‘is he thinking he can treat me poorly now that I am vulnerable’

I agree with previous posters that you sound like you have cold feet about the wedding. If I was in your shoes, with my own house, good job and a healthy pension pot there’s no way I’d be getting married.

You don’t have to get married. You can carry on as you are. It’s no one’s business whether you live with him outside of marriage or not. You’re a 40 year old grown woman you don’t have to appease any ‘culture’.

You do realise that once you’re married he has access to half of everything? Doesn’t matter whether his name is on the house or not, he’d have a claim! Personally I would never, ever put myself in that situation unless I was 100% sure that the man was 100% right for me. It doesn’t sound like this man falls into that category.

Well a different post to the one you quoted yes, but this was the post - by the OP - that I was referring to and why I put behaves in quotation marks....

I don't think she owes him marriage or anyhting else (which I said). But I do think it's manipulative to threaten to break up with someone/ retrack a plan to have him buy in to the house they will share as a way to incentivise or train him to "behave" that way she wants him to behave and not show any negative traits.

Imagine if your husband told you he would break up with him if you were grumpy and didnt' come when he called....

@60degreecycle: Thank you. I grew up in a shouty home & something today made me feel uncomfortable about it

I am concerned that after marriage he will get comfortable and treat me with a lack of respect as I have seen this in other couples

But you can think this is any relationship. He has shouted once, in three years. The fact that you are worried that this could be the start of a pattern means that to you, whoever your partner is, they must be perfect at all times. Nobody can reach that bar.

I get that. I don't think one incident of shouting is a sign that he thinks he can treat you badly though, especially as you acknowlegde that he's stressed at the moment and that his behaviour was uncharacteristic. That said, if you aren't sure about proceeding absolutely don't. It sounds like there's not hurry, and marriage is a serious and legally complicated commitment. If you are concerned about what your life together will be like - and it sounds like you are - then slow things down.

My point was just that it's not on to threaten those things to "correct" his behaviour. Marriage is life long (or at least meant to be) - there will be fights, illness, grief, times where things are stressful, etc and someone might be grumpy or lose their temper, or whatever. It's not fair to pull the plug (or threaten to) everytime your partner isn't acting exactly the way you want them to.

She doesn't want to change his personality or his way of dressing or his socialising.

She just wants him not to shout at her or disrespect her.

OP's gut instinct is kicking in here and she should listen to it.

And if that means he doesn't get to share in her house, then so be it.

Over a noise?

She said she didn't want him to be grumpy in the future, and wanted him to come when she called. Even OP says that he wasn't being aggressive or scary. She just doesn't like the way he behaved.

As PP said, noone can be perfect all the time. It's unrealistic to expect that, and it's manipulative to threaten to break up a relationship every time your partner acts in a way you don't like. Even when you yourself recognise it's unusual or uncharacteristic.

If he doesn't want to come when she is scared then he can end the relationship.

Why is the onus on OP to marry him and give him access to her house and also not expect anything of him?

YABVU
Yelling once in 3 years due to possible stress over something that trivial is completely normal for any red blooded human being. Get help with your fear which you admit is irrational. I dont think marriage is for you if you expect people to act flawlessly all the time.

Well I don’t know anyone who hasn’t raised their voice or shouted at their partner at some point. For most people in the real world it’s something that happens occasionally in a relationship. But then of course, this is Mumsnet where everyone expects 100% perfection.

I didn't say there was onus on her to do anything. In fact I said the opposite.

Me neither. Deeply unattractive and unnecessary, I wouldn't feel safe with a man who saw fit to shout at me, and so there'd be no relationship.
I have no interest in shouting at anyone I love.

Prioritise your own financial security (pre nups won't protect this), peace and pension. I can't see how it's in your best interests to marry anyone.

And I wouldn't feel safe with a man who threatened to end our relationship every time I didn't behave the way he liked. I guess we are all different like that.

But I do agree that marriage is rarely to the benefit of the one in the better financial position, and if OP isn't generally sure about this relationship she shouldn't rush into it.

Being worried that 1 incident of shouting in 3 years is the start of a pattern is a bit mad. Almost a bit controlling, in fact.

Absolutely go into this with your eyes open, especially regarding the finances, but this does feel like a massive overreaction.

What did he actually do at the time and afterwards?

Did he just raise his voice and loudly say 'what is it / is that all, I thought you were hurt!''

Or did he go on at you for a while, call you any names, have threatening body language, or properly yell at the top of his voice?

One is an off the cuff panic reaction that is difficult to control if someone is shouting 'come quick!' and you think there is an emergency.

The other is someone losing their temper and / or wanting to punish you.

If it was the first and he apologised and explained it was because he thought some emergency had happened and the adrenaline was going then I'd forget it. If it was the second and he doubled down that you deserved to be shouted at because you annoyed him, then I'd be rethinking.

You mentioned your friend who's husband turned abusive. I'm not sure whether this means you have a healthy dose of skepticism and realism even though you're in love. Or if there are other red flags you've been ignoring and this is part of a bigger picture, and the incident itself was worse than youre saying. Because not many people would jump to that comparison due to one episode of one slightly raised voice.

My ‘yelling’ was calling his name to get him to come downstairs… it’s not aggressive so very different
And that's your interpretation which is likely very different to his.

If you want a successful marriage, I wouldn't focus on what a terrible man he is for raising his voice but focus on how to accept and then discuss how you both interpret different situations.

Personally I can't stand when people scream my game to get my immediate attention. It gets my adrenaline going and it puts me in fight or flight response. So in that case, I'm likely to shout something back.

You are absolutely mad to be marrying him.
It is clear what he will gain from tjis relationship and marriage.

You are housing him and offering up your house.

To date, what EXACTLY have you gained financially from this relationship?

How do the bills stack up against him paying for a house where you live?

He has substantial savings, has he been generous with you?

Or is the sharing one sided from you, in that you share you home?

Don't be naive.
It bites women hugely in the arse to be naive.

Your home security is so critical, at your age I simply wouldn't offer it up for any man, particularly a frugal one.