Which child is wrong-er

[Dancingwithmyselfoohooh]

Know it's not a word lol

Child A: Breaks something in their own pencil case by accident, is a bit upset and is trying to fix it

Child B: wants to know what happened, asks child A many times/repetitive asking and trying to look

Child A: Becomes fed up of Child A constantly asking, pushes them away in the chest (quite gently)

Child B: Doesn't like being pushed, pushes Child A back much harder, child A nearly falls over a chair, starts to cry and become very upset

Who is in the wrong here?

What about repeated patterns of B not respecting boundaries?

Yes I agree, hopefully she has and I said this to her.

Also, it's weighing on my mind that I don't want him constantly annoying her and I feel the mums Whatsapp was quite bizarre

Then child A should speak to an adult in the class. If that doesn’t resolve things then Child A’s parents should have a word with the class teacher about it. That’s obvious surely?

As we all know, action is not always taken at school though and to be fair to the teacher, she's not always there to see it
I haven't been in to see the teacher about it as I saw it as kids being kid's initially, but now with this, i'm not sure what to do

Hmm. I think I'd be firmly telling my kid off if they were either A or B in this situation to be honest.

I teach my kids that they are allowed to physically defend themselves, as a last resort - and that threatening behaviour is one of the things they're allowed to defend themselves against. It doesn't matter if the other person is not physically hurting them at the time - if they believe they are about to, they can defend themselves.

So I guess part of the question is whether your daughter felt physically threatened by this boy. From your description I think she didn't, just annoyed. That's understandable but that's not something you need to physically defend yourself against.

The other issue is the last resort part - she missed out a whole bunch of steps before she went straight to the physical part. You need to teach her about anger management and de-escalation techniques designed for children - e.g. first step might be "I would like some space, please take a step back" etc, progressing to "back off, leave me alone" in a louder and more assertive voice etc.

At the same time, if I were B's mother, I'd be unimpressed about the baiting and not leaving her alone. It obviously depends what was said - e.g. did the boy actually know he was annoying her? It might seem obvious to adults but 7yos are not always great at reading the room. I'd be working on that with him, and also reiterating what I've always told my kids also about getting in someone's face - you're going to get a retaliation. I'm not saying that's always right or okay, but I tell my kids about the way things are, not just how I'd like it to be!

I'm on the fence about the pushing back. I was always taught that if someone hits you, you hit them back harder! I don't teach my kids that (I take the self defence approach as I said), but I understand parents who do. So I'm not sure I could claim the moral high ground if my kid was the one who got aggressive first.

So, fault on both sides, learning to be done on both sides 🤷🏻‍♀️ as you'd expect, with kids! Hope your daughter is okay now - and the keyring is fixed!

I totally get it.
As Child B’s mum has now escalated it to messaging you, I’d probably have a word with the teacher. She really didn’t need to do that because it was six of one and half a dozen of the other and the teacher dealt with it, just like we have to do day in and day out in school. If the other mum had a problem with your daughter then she should have spoken to the class teacher. What was the tone of her message?

Why does it matter whose behaviour was worse, you know your child didn't act appropriately, so you should focus on teaching her how to handle difficult situations.

Since child B continued to annoy her after she had explained what she was doing, then at that stage your child should have clearly told him she wanted to be alone to fix the broken item. Repeatedly answering his questions and telling him that she was trying to fix something is not the same as clearly telling him to leave her alone for a while so she could work out how to fix whatever was broken.

Teach her how to express what she wants, or doesn't want, in a clear and calm manner. She should understand that it's ok to communicate that she wants someone to back off. There isn't any need to shout or be mean about it and she certainly shouldn't use physical force.

If he still continued, then the next step would be to tell the teacher that she had asked boy B for space but he wasn't listening to her.

Exactly, was so unexpected
She was quite rude and strong in her message

Don't get into a tit-for-tat with the woman. Hand it all off to the teacher.

And possibly consider blocking her unless you're otherwise good pals.

It's a completely normal interaction and 7 year olds don't necessarily have the social skills to deal with the situation. The school dealt with it at the time, so no parent input needed. Just tell the other mum to take it up with the school.

Child B. They were not entitled to an explanation, and were badgering child A until a reaction came. If child A was feeling bad for breaking something, it is entirely normal to not want to talk about it as that would make them feel worse and should not have had to tell child B just to shut them up.

I'm going to go rogue and say both children were fine, it needs to be talked about and then forgotten.

Assuming OPs account is accurate

If somebody is up in your face, bothering and following you, sometimes a light shove will get the message across when words haven't.

If somebody shoves you, its not a big crime to shove them back (even if you do so harder). A light shove back would have escalated it to a shove-fest. A bigger shove ended it.

Both children need to know that bothering people and shoving people are not OK behaviours. The incident itself demonstrates what will happen if you do these things.

Job done, move on.

Nope. Major difference between my child pushed another for absolutely no reason whatsoever and my child had this happen to them and this is what happened from that.

Explaining is NOT excusing.

It's this child was being very annoying and not respecting personal space and my child reacted to this but not in a good way. "Wrong-er" is a bit of a clumsy way of putting it granted, likely because this other mum has kicked off when it has already been dealt with by school.

There's we don't hit, AND we don't ignore requests to respect personal space. She's not justified in hitting because he doesn't respect boundaries, just as he's not justified in nearly pushing her over a chair in response. This is the point where things need de-escalating and lessons learned, other mum sending personal messages sticking the boot in is not helping with that.

I'm still interested in what Child A should have done given the teacher does not intervene. She is in a confined space with someone who refuses to hear her no. She can't leave class, she has done everything else BEFORE moving to gentle physical force...So far I like giving DD a whistle, and the stiff arm technique, but I bet both will be seen as precious and or disruptive. Any further suggestions?

B on the other hand, is being raised to believe that if he doesn't respect a no his mother will defend him for using physical force. That's also not a great lesson (understatement...I bet the mother will say "but he was such a nice boy" when he's in the docks for rape).

So far I like giving DD a whistle, and the stiff arm technique, but I bet both will be seen as precious and or disruptive. Any further suggestions?

I feel like I'd be tempted to teach her to say FUCK RIGHT OFF NOW, DOUCHEBAG, BEFORE I SCREAM.

Probably a good thing I don't have kids. I'd be a rotten mother.

We only have Child A’s word for it (and her somewhat biased mother’s) that the teacher doesn’t intervene.
I can’t imagine it’s true.

She was quite rude and strong in her message

I guess we know where Child B gets it from....

Child B’s parents should be ashamed that their boy pushed a girl.

If anyone honestly had to guess which child will grow up to be problematic or aggressive…

It isn’t going to be child A who sounds like a nice kid that was being harassed.

Child A more wrong. They were physical first - no excuse.

It's a silly classroom incident that the teacher already dealt with. The other mum should be addressing her childs part in this instead of whatsapping you. She sounds unhinged. Block her and tell your kid to avoid hers.

As someone who teaches, I can imagine that the teacher doesn't intervene. A lot of the time this sort of thing is viewed as individual annoying incidents, and the child who complains is blamed for being a complainer.

I have given this advice (albeit in Australia). My daughter told me it was terrible advice (she's probably right). I am a rotten mother 😂

child a and b FAFO?

🙄

Maybe you need to change your approach, going forward?!