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AIBU?

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What would you do if your child punched someone in the face at school?

202 replies

DarkSunshine · Yesterday 20:15

Had a phonecall from my son's school today to inform me that he'd attacked another boy in the playground. Apparently there was an argument over a game (the other child said my son was no good at it and he didn't want him to play anymore) so my son pushed him to the floor and proceeded to punch him in the face before being pulled off him.

As punishment he'll miss his break times for the rest of the week and he's been banned from the school trip next week.

DH thinks this is a fair punishment and he shouldn't face anymore consequences from us at home and that he was being "wound up" by the other boy. Personally I think he should have further consequences at home because I don't want to make him think he can do things like that at school and we won't have anything to say about it.

He's in year 5 and about to turn 10 in a couple of weeks. This isn't the first time something like this has happened and I feel like we really need to come down quite hard this time.

He has no SEN.

Aibu?

OP posts:
GrantMyWishes · Yesterday 23:22

As you've already realised OP, you and your DH need to be singing from the same hymn sheet when dealing with your DS, and you need to make your DH see that by sitting back and not taking any further action on this, you will be making a rod for your own backs for when your DS gets bigger. For the time being you would be able to pick him up, and physically stop him from hitting someone, but all too soon, he'll be too big for that, and if you don't do something about it, it won't be long before you or his Dad will 'wind him up', and he's then going to lash out at you. Is your DH prepared for that?

Isittimeformynapyet · Yesterday 23:28

MrsKeats · Yesterday 21:12

Imagine if another child punched your son in the face. How would you feel?

That's a strange question.

OP would obviously be very upset if someone punched her son in the face, just as she's clearly distressed that her son has done that to someone else's son.

Your response would only make sense if OP had told us she had no intention of further punishment and that she thought the school were being too punitive.

BertieBotts · Yesterday 23:36

DarkSunshine · Yesterday 20:53

I'm so worried he just doesn't have a conscience or something. How do you force someone to have a conscience?

Sorry I have read more of the thread and seen this.

A general pattern of wanting to be in control, of being somewhat socially domineering, and lashing out sometimes to the point of aggression or violence is not really a pattern associated with a lack of conscience. In fact it's more associated with anxiety, or difficulty with emotional regulation or cognitive flexibility. Aggression in general can just be immature behaviour, rather than a baked-in personality trait he will always have (though I do agree it's important to take violent behaviour very seriously).

Does he tend to feel remorseful after something has happened? Or in any situation at all (e.g. would he feel remorseful if he hurt someone or broke something belonging to others accidentally, even if not when he did that deliberately?) Does his own behaviour scare him, is he upset? (Again: ever? Some of the time?) Does he understand that his response is extreme, or does it feel normal/justified to him? Is he appropriately frightened or worried by things like blood/injury or witnessing violence/aggression from others?

From my understanding (I am not an expert but I am interested in behaviour) a child who doesn't have much in the way of conscience/empathy would generally not feel remorse about any actions which hurt others, whether purposeful or accidental, and would not see their own behaviour as extreme. They are generally not upset about what has happened, would consider it a reasonable choice of action, might be surprised or annoyed that adults are upset by it, and will only be upset about consequences to themselves. Sometimes they also have a fascination or curiosity about things like injuries which most children would find frightening.

Children with the most worrying behaviour profile seem to gain pleasure from violence, and may have history of harming animals or insects on purpose. They generally don't care at all about being punished and won't be upset even if you do punish them. They tend to have an extremely strong and persistent desire for revenge. This is extremely difficult to work with, basically only reward works. Punishment doesn't work at all (probably because they don't care about social disapproval).

Both of those profiles, especially the latter, are very rare. The first can sometimes be seen in autism, and can also sometimes be indicative of more of a mismatch where the cognitive/logical intelligence is much further ahead than the emotional intelligence, ie they may grow out of it and do develop more empathy as they get older, and you can use behavioural strategies in the meantime to shift the motivation profile of violence, and sometimes reasoning and some social skills training to try to help them recognise emotions in others which can help with the development of empathy. Some adults do not ever develop much empathy and can be considered sociopaths, but it doesn't mean that they are all violent/psychopaths. They can be perfectly law abiding especially if they see benefits from staying on the right side of the law - so if you suspect this (and again, it's unlikely) focusing on ways that he can gain social status and power in a healthy way are usually very positive, so that a loss of social standing or e.g. ability to take part in sports, make money etc can be balanced against this in order to discourage violence and other ASB.

OTOH the most common presentation, where children are acting in a controlling manner (sometimes escalating to aggression/violence) in response to anxiety, or difficulty coping when someone's behaviour is unpredictable or difficulty handling their own emotions (e.g. struggling with losing or frustration, getting much more easily wound up than other children, etc) tend to either feel somewhat distressed after they have been violent, or they feel righteous/aggrieved. Either way, they tend to say things like "But I had to do that because otherwise he wouldn't stop saying that!!!" - they tend to feel that it was the only possible/logical choice and that their actions were justified in some way, but they are also aware that it's not an ideal or first choice type response, and they wouldn't choose it if they had a better option - they tend to feel as though they were backed into a corner and had no choice, although often from an adult perspective it does look as though they had blinkers on and didn't stop to consider any other options (which is because IME they haven't).

They often feel that their actions were in proportion to what happened, which is more of a reflection that their perception of what happened was inflated compared with anybody else's impression of it. Or they recognise that they were not in proportion but basically they either just went past the point of being in control, or they didn't know what else to do, or they didn't stop to think and they just reacted.

I'm not going to say this is easy to handle, because it's not, but it's much more straightforward than a scenario where a child is actually lacking a conscience. What children need in this scenario is skills, basically. They are lacking skills either in self-regulation, which is about recognising that you're getting wound up and choosing to step away and do something else instead (and knowing what to do instead) or response inhibition (impulse control) ie stopping and actually considering the consequences of their actions, flexibility which is about understanding that other people are individuals and you can't always control them and shouldn't try to, or distress tolerance, which is more about being able to coach yourself through feelings like anxiety, frustration, upset etc without it coming out at other people.

EezyOozy · Yesterday 23:44

Hopefully the other parent(s) will make a formal complaint and your son will be suspended at least. You could request that he is suspended.

When you say you’re worried he’ll end up in prison…. Are you worried about him being in prison or him potentially committing serious criminal violence ?

what punishments can you do at home? Removal of privileges ? You do need to act incredibly firmly now.

Reallyneedsaholiday · Yesterday 23:46

I wouldn’t be going down the road of extra “punishment”, the school have dealt with that. Talk to him, and find out why he did it. If he has anger problems, then help,him channel them into something more productive. Someone else suggested martial arts - which I’d second, great for discipline and self confidence and they do NOT tolerate misuse of the skills they teach. Also consider a punch bag, or a drum kit.

EezyOozy · Yesterday 23:47

And “what would I do” - if he is harming children at school repeatedly I’d home school
him. I couldn’t live with sending my child was in to school if I knew he was assaulting others.

sunnymummy238 · Today 00:06

He needs to learn techniques to deal with anger. In a few years he’ll be a big boy, and aggression will be a serious issue. Find a therapist who specialises in child psychotherapy and impulse control.

LadyLaundry · Today 00:54

ilovesooty · Yesterday 20:19

I think you're right. I'm surprised he hasn't been excluded.

I agree. I would also say that I know a local primary school where this would just get "Reflection"...

Year 5 is too old to be provoked like this and you as parents should absolutely be heavily involved, if not taking the lead, in redirecting his behaviour.

He's been punished, sure, but that's not the totality of what you need to do.

TimeDoesntStandStill · Today 04:02

Yes punishmrnt at home.

All privileges lost for 1 week, no tech, all removed and put in a drawer in your bedroom.

Hes old enough to write a book review, I'd get a short kids bullying book and have him read and write a short review.

Going forward I'd consider working through anger workbook with him each week, like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anger-Management-Workbook-Kids-Activities/dp/1641520922/ref=asc_df_1641520922?mcid=333c6859fc0a36abb87b5e133a4584c2&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697314918377&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15145161793112404409&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046888&hvtargid=pla-576810181885&psc=1&hvocijid=15145161793112404409-1641520922-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

I'd look to get him started in some sort of martial arts to enforce discipline and control around physical aggression.

If it was a standing on punch be a bit more acceptable, than totally losing it and sitting atop someone and continuosly punching them in face, thats too far and concerning if happened before. Puberty will be starting in 2-3 years and he could do serious damage, he needs support to manage his anger by the sounds of it.

Best wishes x

Amazon

Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anger-Management-Workbook-Kids-Activities/dp/1641520922/ref=asc_df_1641520922?gad_source=1&hvadid=697314918377&hvdev=m&hvexpln=0&hvlocphy=9046888&hvnetw=g&hvocijid=15145161793112404409-1641520922-&hvrand=15145161793112404409&hvtargid=pla-576810181885&linkCode=df0&mcid=333c6859fc0a36abb87b5e133a4584c2&psc=1&th=1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-am-i-being-unreasonable-5579247-what-would-you-do-if-your-child-punched-someone-in-the-face-at-school

FaceIt · Today 04:22

I really understand your concerns of where this could lead to when he’s older.

I would seriously look into anger management lessons for him, plus a very disciplined sport where he has very strong role models guiding him.

ElefantAndCastle · Today 04:45

EezyOozy · Yesterday 23:47

And “what would I do” - if he is harming children at school repeatedly I’d home school
him. I couldn’t live with sending my child was in to school if I knew he was assaulting others.

Are you rich? I don't know anyone able to do that and quit the job.

Natsku · Today 05:38

DarkSunshine · Yesterday 21:18

Would it be worth having a meeting with someone at the school to discuss my concerns? I wonder if they have any sort of interventions they can do with him alongside things I can do with him at home.

Yes do this, I'm doing the same in regards to my DS who struggles with controlling his anger, amongst other things, and I'm hopeful it'll help.

You definitely need to try and stop him reacting violently when he's angry, consequences at home and serious discussions about why he reacted that way. Your DH needs to stop minimising and take this seriously.

Xanhi · Today 06:02

How does your son feel about it? Has it upset him or not? There is always a lot going on at school. Children do lash out at this age quite a bit and it is rare that it is straightforwardly one child in the wrong. It is often a buildup of frustration. One form of bullying is taunting someone who is known to lose their temper until they explode. Some children love provoking this kind of drama. What you don't want is your son being the the child who hits people when he gets emotional because he will be targeted and he will end up hurting others.

You need him to develop strategies to control his temper so that it doesn't happen again. I would pay for some sessions of counselling with someone who specialises in children this age. They tend to be pretty good with this kind of thing. It shows your son that you are taking it seriously and will also help him to solve the problem. It will be much more effective than more punishment.

Isittimeformynapyet · Today 06:17

TimeDoesntStandStill · Today 04:02

Yes punishmrnt at home.

All privileges lost for 1 week, no tech, all removed and put in a drawer in your bedroom.

Hes old enough to write a book review, I'd get a short kids bullying book and have him read and write a short review.

Going forward I'd consider working through anger workbook with him each week, like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anger-Management-Workbook-Kids-Activities/dp/1641520922/ref=asc_df_1641520922?mcid=333c6859fc0a36abb87b5e133a4584c2&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697314918377&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15145161793112404409&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046888&hvtargid=pla-576810181885&psc=1&hvocijid=15145161793112404409-1641520922-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1

I'd look to get him started in some sort of martial arts to enforce discipline and control around physical aggression.

If it was a standing on punch be a bit more acceptable, than totally losing it and sitting atop someone and continuosly punching them in face, thats too far and concerning if happened before. Puberty will be starting in 2-3 years and he could do serious damage, he needs support to manage his anger by the sounds of it.

Best wishes x

All privileges lost for 1 week, no tech, all removed and put in a drawer in your bedroom.

Did you get that OP?

The tech has to go in a drawer in your bedroom.

Minniemummy19 · Today 06:42

No question absolutely needs consequences of his actions by his parents, I’d be absolutely mortified and disappointed, it’s not a minor incident either. He needs to know that not only is it not acceptable in school where he got punished it’s not acceptable in life, it won’t be a one off if you ignore it.

Mh67 · Today 06:50

He is being punished at school. So punishment for this its finished. But discussion on why it happened why its not acceptable and what will happen if it occurs again

concertinacornflake · Today 06:55

DarkSunshine · Yesterday 20:51

Thank you for everyone's comments, to try and address a few points:

His Dad is not violent or abusive, in fact he's far too laid back and passive if anything. He doesn't really argue just shrugs his shoulders and tends to bury his head in the sand about any issues

DS has an older sister who is 14, he's not violent to her and she's never been violent to anyone.

He's always been a very domineering child, as much as I've tried to steer him away from always wanting to be in control he just goes back to the behaviours. He's not being abused, he just seems to want to be in power over people and I don't know how to stamp that out.

We've had so many deep conversations with him about how to treat people and why he should treat people with respect etc he just can't seem to help himself when someone insults him or whatever. I've barely been able to look at him tonight because I'm so ashamed of his behaviour.

I keep thinking about the poor boy and his mother having to be told he's been brutally attacked like that.

You need to get him help, not simply non-specific focus on 'stamping it out'.

Support school's consequence for the offence, and in addition go to school to discuss and ask what help you can pay for privately to get to the bottom of why he is like this.

And if any professional says it might be to do with parenting or home environment - listen and make changes.

Ljzjta · Today 07:02

I have an 11 year old who this would be totally out of character for too. I would absolutely punish him at home as well. When your 10 year old turns 11, they are able to take responsibility for their actions in law. I would come down hard now so he knows this is completely not acceptable behaviour in and out of school. Good luck working out what’s best.

Franjipanl8r · Today 07:04

He needs more sport as an outlet for this physical frustration, and he also needs some privileges removed in a significant way IMO. I’d remove a gaming device altogether or have a complete ban on screens - whatever he likes the most would be gone.

Pinkgorilla101 · Today 07:18

Yes, of course there should be consequences at home. He’s nearly 10, this isn’t the first time, and this wasn’t a shove in the heat of the moment — he knocked another child to the ground and repeatedly punched him in the face until somebody had to pull him off.
I think you need to stop agonising over how ashamed you feel and actually parent him through this. Missing a few breaktimes and a school trip are the school’s consequences. They don’t have to be the only consequences he faces. At home I’d be making it very clear that seriously hurting another child means losing privileges and that life doesn’t simply carry on as normal.
And I’m afraid “he was wound up” would cut absolutely no ice with me. Children are going to annoy him, insult him and exclude him throughout his childhood. He needs to learn now that being angry or embarrassed doesn’t give him permission to use violence.
If my child had been knocked to the floor and repeatedly punched in the face until someone physically pulled the attacker off, I would be taking it extremely seriously and I would be considering reporting it to the police. I think perhaps your DH needs to appreciate that this is considerably more serious than two children having a playground scuffle.
Punishment alone clearly isn’t enough either if this has happened before. I’d be asking for a proper meeting with the school and trying to work out why he reacts like this and what needs to change. But yes — parent him. Be calm, be firm, give him consequences and follow through. Being ashamed to look at him doesn’t teach him anything.

PurpleThistle7 · Today 07:21

Do you go to football matches? My son is 10 and just quit after about 6 years of it. Mostly because he hated the aggression and fighting and whatnot. If you haven’t seen what it’s like at the games, you might be surprised. I don’t think it’s likely to be helping your son’s aggression- last straw for us was watching two parents get into a fight at the side of the pitch.

i hugely recommend taekwando specifically as there’s a huge lead time before they start sparring. They have to learn to control their body and sparring only starts a few belts in and under very controlled situations.

I would be intensely concerned too, your husband is wrong here.

Bunnycat101 · Today 07:24

I’d be so pissed off by the school’s response if I was the other parent. A lot of Primary schools seem to be stuck with low consequence punishments. The trip feels a like good consequence but missing a bit of break is just meh.

I think punishment is important alongside support to manage emotional regulation. The worst thing you can do is send a message that there are no consequences for what is essentially an assault.

EatMoreChocolate44 · Today 07:24

As a teacher please support the school and have consequences at home. Children need to know that school and parents are communicating and working together. If parents do nothing then it's sending a message to their child that they can do what they like at school and there will be no repercussions at home. Ultimately your child's behaviour is your responsibility and a reflection on you.

Ireallywantadoughnut36 · Today 07:29

This isn't about "punishment" this is about actually teaching him a lesson. You need a proper chat, how did he feel when this happened (angry, humiliated, sad), what should/could he have done about it? How do we manage feelings like anger (look on you tube for breathing exercises, walking away, writing things down etc).
Just because he has no send doesn't mean he is good at regulating his emotions (jesus a lot of adult men with no send cannot do it). He isn't going to learn it by telling him off or taking something away. It's a skill. I'd potentially look at therapy if you can afford it so a qualified adult can help him build these skills before secondary. If not, use you tube and books, role model it when you're cross, look at stories and in sport for people who manage their temper etc. Put rewards in place for naming and managing emotions around the home/with you and talk to school about how they can help implement these too.
If he was awful at football, you wouldn't remove his iPad until he scored a goal - you'd coach him and teach him what he needs to do to score. I'm not saying don't put any consequences in place, but you do need to give him a better set of skills to stop him doing this when he feels bad. He needs to actually learn this ASAP.

Ireallywantadoughnut36 · Today 07:30

This isn't about "punishment" this is about actually teaching him a lesson. You need a proper chat, how did he feel when this happened (angry, humiliated, sad), what should/could he have done about it? How do we manage feelings like anger (look on you tube for breathing exercises, walking away, writing things down etc).
Just because he has no send doesn't mean he is good at regulating his emotions (jesus a lot of adult men with no send cannot do it). He isn't going to learn it by telling him off or taking something away. It's a skill. I'd potentially look at therapy if you can afford it so a qualified adult can help him build these skills before secondary. If not, use you tube and books, role model it when you're cross, look at stories and in sport for people who manage their temper etc. Put rewards in place for naming and managing emotions around the home/with you and talk to school about how they can help implement these too.
If he was awful at football, you wouldn't remove his iPad until he scored a goal - you'd coach him and teach him what he needs to do to score. I'm not saying don't put any consequences in place, but you do need to give him a better set of skills to stop him doing this when he feels bad. He needs to actually learn this ASAP.

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