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AIBU?

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What would you do if your child punched someone in the face at school?

202 replies

DarkSunshine · Yesterday 20:15

Had a phonecall from my son's school today to inform me that he'd attacked another boy in the playground. Apparently there was an argument over a game (the other child said my son was no good at it and he didn't want him to play anymore) so my son pushed him to the floor and proceeded to punch him in the face before being pulled off him.

As punishment he'll miss his break times for the rest of the week and he's been banned from the school trip next week.

DH thinks this is a fair punishment and he shouldn't face anymore consequences from us at home and that he was being "wound up" by the other boy. Personally I think he should have further consequences at home because I don't want to make him think he can do things like that at school and we won't have anything to say about it.

He's in year 5 and about to turn 10 in a couple of weeks. This isn't the first time something like this has happened and I feel like we really need to come down quite hard this time.

He has no SEN.

Aibu?

OP posts:
Annoyedbyhusband · Yesterday 22:05

Yes, nip it in the bud. Secondary school don’t do losing break times, they do immediate suspension. It’s going to be a long hard road if you don’t show tough love now. I would give a proper home punishment as well. Clearly he doesn’t care about losing break times. My kids don’t care about losing break times they quite like it and it’s not really a punishment.

BertieBotts · Yesterday 22:11

floofydoofy · Yesterday 20:21

I would be trying to figure out WHY he thought that was an appropriate response to being slighted, rather than layering on punishments and shame (he should already be feeling shameful? Do you think he is?). It is (VERY) worrying rather than being something to be furious at him over. You need to figure this out now before he's at secondary school or does something like this again. Have you noticed he's particularly violent when angry typically? What is his Dad like when he's angry?

I'm not very good at coming up with punishments as everything feels rather arbitrary to me and nothing "makes sense", so I'll let others help with that aspect.

This. This is the most important thing you can do.

TBH it does not really matter whether a punishment is related, makes sense, or is arbitrary because none of that makes a punishment more or less effective. It is not that effective anyway - the main effect of punishment is to sort of "underline" the disapproval of adults, which for a NT child will be the significant part anyway, because social approval/disapproval is a HUGE driver of behaviour in the vast majority of children (and people of all ages).

Sometimes also punishment/reward can separately be helpful to sort of tip the motivation balance, e.g. if it's really obvious that they are doing something because they are getting something out of it, and you want to balance that out to reflect the inconvenience or harm caused to you/others. I don't think this is that situation - but if he is gaining social approval, bravado or status by using violence, then it could be part of it.

But mostly, punishment is not that effective on its own so the most important things are to keep it temporary and small. The main deterrent is social disapproval, and most children experience punishment as social disapproval in itself, making it basically irrelevant what the actual punishment is.

What you can do sometimes is if you have a sort of "standard" punishment like loss of some kind of privilege, if there is a behaviour which crosses a very clear line or you want to make a really big point about, then either the very first time it happens, or the first time after you've had a serious talk about it, you can try making the incident "memorable" by either removing a larger privilege (e.g. all screen time rather than one specific screen) or increase the duration (e.g. usually lost for 30 mins but this time lost for a week) - the point of this is essentially shock value, with the idea being that on rare occasions you want to make a really big fuss, which has the effect of not only underlining the social disapproval part but also metaphorically highlighting it, using capitals, red pen and several exclamation marks - basically hoping to instill a memory of "Holy shit, I had better not do that again!"

Note that I am not talking about using fear, emotional cruelty (e.g. going for a sentimental or beloved item) or violence. I do not think those things are helpful, particularly for discouraging violence. I also think it is almost always a bad idea to give any kind of punishment which is permanent, e.g. missing out on something that they will never get the chance to do again, or losing something outright with no chance to earn it back. In some cases it might make sense (e.g. the school trip makes sense) but I do think most of the time esp for parents, if you have an urge to do this, put some time/space between the urge and actually doing it because it might be more of a revenge urge and revenge doesn't make for an effective punishment, it just fuels conflict and feeling misunderstood, and since punishment doesn't actually do very much on its own, the last thing you want is to create distrust between you, because whether you use a big punishment, small punishment or none the thing that will actually change behaviour long term is helping your child solve the problem they were trying to solve with the unwanted behaviour, in a better way, and they need to trust you for that.

Hence, you can only really do the "memorable" thing once, maybe twice at a push. If you do that all the time, it loses its value (and you will run out of things to take away, which defeats the point). Also - if you try the "memorable" thing, or even standard normal punishments and behaviour continues or worsens, then increasing the punishment is highly unlikely to work, and basically it makes sense to downgrade back to a temporary/token punishment so that it remains repeatable, or drop it temporarily because you need to do more on the problem solving or relationship building side instead, or look at where you are (what your child is doing now) and where you want them to be (what you want them to do instead) and break this down into smaller steps and work on one at a time. If this still does not work, break the steps down even more.

People often have this idea that punishment is like a magic hammer which can squash behaviour, with more effectiveness the bigger you make it, and that is not really the case, because behaviour does not happen out of nowhere. It's more like a pressure valve - it creates pressure behind the behaviour, but the behaviour didn't happen out of nowhere and so there's likely pressure from another direction as well. If you don't find it a safe route to escape and just keep adding more pressure from your side, it's going to explode somewhere and probably cause some damage.

yellowbobble · Yesterday 22:12

DarkSunshine · Yesterday 21:18

Would it be worth having a meeting with someone at the school to discuss my concerns? I wonder if they have any sort of interventions they can do with him alongside things I can do with him at home.

Does the school have a PCSO who works with the school? Lots of schools do. If so I’d ask if the school can get them to have a talk with your son about his actions. I think he needs to understand the seriousness of the incident and what the real world consequences would be and fast, as he is Y5 and quickly approaching the age of criminal responsibility. It might be the shock to the system that he needs
I think your DH also needs to wake up fast to the reality of where DS could end up if he thinks he can behave like this in society when someone annoys him.

I always say to my kids, it only takes one punch to potentially take a life.

Kokonimater · Yesterday 22:13

He’s not a happy boy to be reacting
like that. What is underneath this anger?
Does he feel bad about himself?
the school are punishing. You need to do the finding out.

Bloozie · Yesterday 22:14

Your job is to find out why he did what he did. The punishment isn’t really the point. It sounds like he’s being raised in a house where one parent legitimises violence and the other sees punishment as teaching him. YA both BU.

AmberPeaches · Yesterday 22:16

You need to deal with this now. Not acceptable.

rainbowsnack · Yesterday 22:16

It may be worth pointing out to your H, that when he turns 10, your son can be held criminally responsible for his behaviour.

superchick · Yesterday 22:18

I would be deeply worried about my son if he was like this and would be looking for some answers, possibly through counselling.

If my child was punched by a child in school to this extent I would strongly consider calling the police. He'll end up in prison if you aren't careful.

Kokonimater · Yesterday 22:20

Sorry. Read all your posts know.
if you’re concerned about his lack of a conscience or not showing remorse I would strongly suggest you try to find a child psychologist for him.

PestoPastaLife · Yesterday 22:22

I’d be cutting out all screen time other than maybe some family tv/film for a bit.

I agree leaning heavily into sports is a good idea, he will learn really healthy discipline that way. In all seriousness you could also have the armed forces in the back of your mind for later teen years - physical activity, plenty of structure and hierarchy. I know a few men who could easily have gone down the wrong path and were absolutely transformed by the army or marines.

Losingtheplot2016 · Yesterday 22:23

PollyBell · Yesterday 21:43

No i dont thinl children should get away with things like this bit i think punishment only makes the adults feel better they have done something

So those that punish what do you think it actually achieves, and did you learn anything from your parents punishing you?

I will say the school action had to happen but I see that as a consequence, parents adding to it makes no sense to me

This. The school have done a lot here. You need to probably calm down and think through what you can say to him rather than add to things now. You’ll be coming from a place of fear (or I would) if you act too quickly.
Kids are not the finished article. Emotion regulation is a long way off for a child of this age. He has got to be able to make a mistake and you need to be able to cope with this calmly.

anonymoususer9876 · Yesterday 22:26

So far @DarkSunshine you haven't said what your DS's explanation is, his feelings now he's calmed, his understanding of his responsibility for his actions.

Is he able to understand why he made the wrong choice, or does he double down that he was provoked? How was he feeling - did it come on suddenly? Or was he able to recognise it but wanted 'respect' to keep his standing of being the popular lad and chose to respond/react? Does he understand that he is responsible for his actions as he approaches 10?

Getdowntohappyshopper · Yesterday 22:29

The school punishment seems extremely lenient. This sort of stuff should be zero tolerance, and exclusion. I go berserk if I was the parent of the kid who got punched.

TheMixedGirl · Yesterday 22:32

Is your son being bullied at school or does he just have a bad temper? Is he hitting the same child or is it different kids? I need more information. Sometimes it may seem that a chd is the aggressor but in actually fact they are just sticking up for themselves.

Floppyearedlab · Yesterday 22:51

You are quite right to take this seriously. He is weeks, days away from being over the age of criminal responsibility. If he does this again to a member of the public who pisses him off, and seriously hurts or even kills them, he will be tried in court.
I am amazed the school are taking such a wishy washy approach. Missed playtimes aren't going to cut it. They need to be putting proper support in place for your son to manage his behaviour and safeguard the other children.

SereneGoose · Yesterday 22:56

"We need to talk about Kevin"... it might be helpful for DH to read...

canklesmctacotits · Yesterday 22:57

Id be considering my parenting thus far to have failed 😕

DrCoconut · Yesterday 22:59

SoSoLong · Yesterday 20:23

The school have been very lenient here. You really need to come down hard on this type of behaviour.

Any possibility that there's more to this than meets the eye and they are keen to prevent the further digging that an exclusion will bring? Bullying? Poor behaviour management/supervision at school? Totally agree with some pp that you need to find out why this happened and resolve it not just issue an arbitrary punishment. Being harsh will put up barriers between you at what sounds like the very time you least need them. Not saying you tell him it's all fine but work with him to solve his anger and what's behind it.

PussyGaylore · Yesterday 23:02

Definitely needs consequences ( no games, computer, tv)Explain that actions have consequences.
You do also you need to talk to him about how to reframe the situation when things like this happen and give him techniques for managing his anger and se if you can find out where this anger is coming from. I think I’d be reading some parenting books or looking for a bit of family counselling perhaps.

shuggles · Yesterday 23:06

@DarkSunshine Son should be punished, but I also think the other boy should not go unpunished.

Strangerthanfictions · Yesterday 23:10

floofydoofy · Yesterday 20:21

I would be trying to figure out WHY he thought that was an appropriate response to being slighted, rather than layering on punishments and shame (he should already be feeling shameful? Do you think he is?). It is (VERY) worrying rather than being something to be furious at him over. You need to figure this out now before he's at secondary school or does something like this again. Have you noticed he's particularly violent when angry typically? What is his Dad like when he's angry?

I'm not very good at coming up with punishments as everything feels rather arbitrary to me and nothing "makes sense", so I'll let others help with that aspect.

I think rather than ask why he thinks it's an appropriate response, I'd ask him does he think it was appropriate first, he may have remorse and regret and be fully aware it was wrong but is struggling to recognise that in the heat of the moment when he is wound up. Understanding is key, find out exactly what it was like for him and what happened and you can find a way forward based on that

DooDallyHallie · Yesterday 23:11

The school are punishing him. Your job is to coach him , to give him the tools he needs to cope with situations like this without lashing out.

BettyBoh · Yesterday 23:15

More consequences are not going to solve the root cause. You need to work that out first in order to know what the appropriate reaction from you is.
start off with the most obvious:
-theres violence and aggression at home
-he has unlimited access to violent or aggressive content online (does he take his phone to bed?)
-he has older siblings
-he has undiagnosed issues (eg ADHD, schizophrenia, BPD)

Genevieva · Yesterday 23:17

I think a conversation at home about managing emotions and behaviour is more important than further punishments. Children are still learning these skills. He presumably knows what he did is wrong and that you are disappointed. Does he have a plan for recognising those negative feelings and redirecting them, so he doesn’t lash out next time?

Isittimeformynapyet · Yesterday 23:20

Proteinlentil · Yesterday 21:03

So I was correct

HUGE back story for you to now be wondering if the son lacks a conscience

I think the term "backstory" implies that the OP has kept important information from us.

She hasn't.

It sounds like you think you've cleverly intuited a situation that was out in the open anyway.