To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

Are you basically saying don’t do school trips then?

Yeah I agree let the dd lend it and I would split the paying back with your older dd £15 each. I’d also pack her some snacks as it will
probably be more costly than they realise. But yes spends on a school trip is normal.

I am a teacher who has been on many residential. U always end up out of pocket. Generally there will be a set amount of adult places per ratio, e.g 1:10. The overtime is not paid. I remember someone telling me to accompany us on the trip, she was having to get childcare to look after her own children as she usually did the pick up before husband was home. Don't start bashing the teachers re cost- trips like these can only go ahead due to good will. Those people who are questioning why such a trip is going ahead at the start of the academic year, remember this would have been publicised long before. Also, just because everyone cannot afford these experiences it does not mean they shouldn't be offered. I say this as someone who would have been in this position as a child. Fact of life- we can't always have what we want.

You sound like a great mum; I hope you get something sorted soon 🌷

Oh ignore @Maray1967 . It was a daft suggestion to interrogate the school

You are being very unreasonable. Let your lovely 10 year old lend her sister the money. Perhaps you could pick up some ironing or cleaning to help pay her back.

The school should have informed you - please don't blame yourself.

My co-parent and I have had the same - we've paid a fucking fortune for trips for DD and the school suddenly announced that various meals aren't included and they need huge amounts of spending money too ...

Luckily between us we can cover it (and we have supportive parents who help when needed). But if we were both in a position where every £ counted, I literally don't know what we'd do when these messages suddenly come through.

It's not ok, and this information should be available from the very start when families decide whether or not to sign their kids up for these trips.

(And I am not slagging off teachers - I am one! And have massive respect for colleagues who give up loads of family time to offer enrichment like this. But still, it's not ok to put people in unfeasible financial positions.....)

It might be better to take a water bottle and a couple of snacks, and use the 'food' money for just food. Most London tourist attractions have somewhere you can top-up a water bottle for free.
Also perhaps check with the school how they are expecting them to travel round London? If they're supposed to use public transport at any point, it will be a lot cheaper with an 11-15 photocard (see TFL's website for details).

This is the most idiotic phrase ever 'Nobody asked to be born'. Yeah, let us throw the most precious gift, the gift of life back in the face of those who gave life. Absolutely moronic.

I hadn’t thought about my eldest getting a little job actually. She is 14 so I will have a look at what she could do locally. She might be able to walk someone’s dog or something at the weekend. She isn’t particularly organised with money though so I don’t know how well that would go, but maybe it would be good for her to learn.

I could ask about extending my shifts by an hour. The problem is school finishes at 3 and I usually need to be back for then, but maybe there is something I can work out with my mum. She can help sometimes but I don’t want to rely on her too much.

Thank you for the suggestion about the water bottle. I hadn’t thought about being able to refill it in London. I will check with the school about how they are getting around too, as I don’t know if travel is included in the trip cost or if they need extra money for that.

I am still waiting to hear if the school can help with the activity. I think that is probably the first thing I need to sort out before worrying about everything else.

I think your kids sound lovely. You have done and are doing a good job. They are kind to each and know the value of love.

Very much depends on the area, actually. I teach in an area where there is a lot of extreme financial deprivation. We actively discourage the kids from planning to purchase food on trips, and suggest that they bring packed food which is a lot cheaper for families - and the canteen provide packed meals for everyone on Free School Meals. There is no shame among our kids attached to bringing food with them - it's simply the expect thing, and what they all do.

Schools can help with this sort of thing, in terms of the messaging to families and the kids themselves. If they have a mind to.

Going on the trip without spending money is worse than not going on the trip at all.
Let your other daughter lend the money. I’d then pay the younger daughter back £10 a month.

Please ask school - they have funds for these reasons

This is a good idea, OP. (Contacting the school - but also your daughter getting a little job is a great idea to - both for her own personal development and the family finances!)

Be assertive with the school, and clear on how difficult a situation you are in. Please don't feel embarrassed, there is absolutely no need. Any school staff whose opinions are worth considering will have massive respect and compassion for you, as a single mom raising two clearly lovely girls, on a restricted income.

Anyone who judges you even remotely is a twat, so who gives a fuck what they think?

And it's very likely you won't be the only parent struggling to pay an additional £50. When I think of lots of the families we work with - suddenly dropping an additional £50 requirement on them would be incomprehensible! I would say over 50% of our families whole struggle to find this out of nowhere....

@OneSunnyGreenTurtle absolutely borrow the £30/35from your youngest dd and aim to pay her back in instalments, it’s a trip cost so it’s your responsibility to cover not either of your DD’s I’m afraid.

As a side note, this is pretty poor from school to dump an extra £50 cost on so close to the date. This info should have been shared months ago. Trip costs should include pretty much all food and activities up front. Food for the day is not an ‘extra’!!
I’d be very surprised if you’re the only one struggling to find this money.

I think you should be proud of your youngest for being so kind here. you should allow her to loan her big sister £35.
then over the next few weeks you should pay the £35 back to your youngest.

I am sorry OP. I know myself earning the same as last year but in a two parent household things are much tighter than they were a couple of years ago.
Hopefully your mam can help you out. Are you using the local food bank to save money. I only gave away an older phone, I would have posted it to you. I have done it before on mumsnet. I hate to see children struggling as I have been there as a child, they’ll be resilient in the long run.
Best of luck.

I think it's really naughty of the school to add these additional costs. I organise trips and am always upfront. All activities and meals are usually included in the trip price with the exception of the travel days when we normally suggest packed lunch on the way or cash for service station or airport food, and money to buy lunch on the return journey. FSM children can order a packed lunch for the outbound journey and no one has ever asked but I am sure school could fund the lunch on the last day too.

PM sent.

You need to keep her back, I’m afraid.

£50 for 3 days in London is nothing. They’ll need closer to £250 to be honest. You should’ve thought this through.

Sounds fucking awful. If you don't want to be tied to the ground, don't have kids. Otherwise don't complain about it because that's the deal and we all know about it in advance.

No, these are the words of the daughter, not the mum. Daughter understands mum has to work, provide, etc. and feels sorry for mum.

I’d manage what you can and I’d let your youngest lend some money. She is making a very kind offer and I think that if she understands what that means, you should let her do something nice for her sister. Tell your oldest that you will expect her to give her DS the money back from her Christmas/birthday money or you could replace it £5 per month