To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

Buy DD sweets/biscuits/cereal bars to take with her-easy to put one or two into her bag, and they are always overpriced. Supermarket meal deals can be good value while she is away-make sure she has a Tesco club card/nectar card/co-op card so she can get the cheaper offers. There are generally small supermarkets dotted around most of London, so should be quite easy for her to nip in-suggest to the teachers that they keep an eye out for them.
Also look at things like the McDonald’s app-sometimes they have introductory offers, or she may be able to incrue quite a few points if other kids don’t have one! Encourage her to look for offers-McDonald’s do a wrap of the day for example-look at menus and show her how to make good choices! Ice creams are so much better value if 4 kids buy a box from the supermarket and not the ice cream van! Encourage DD to see it as being a savvy shopper and not a cheapskate!
If necessary, you can pay back younger dd so she isn’t out of pocket for long-older dd can do extra jobs for you to show her gratitude.

My opinion would be
Let your youngest daughter lend the money etc,she has very kindly offered and is upset that you won't let her.
You pay back half/daughter pays back half.
Lessons learnt : Daughter needs to save like her sister.
If possible you need to save extra if paying for a trip etc in future for issues that might arise like this.

The teachers are working! I very much doubt they're paying to go to work, presumably being in charge of the children for the 3 days and 2 nights for no extra pay!
Without the adults, trips like this wouldn't be able to go ahead.

Are you some kind of religious nut or something?

I can see there has been a lot of suggestions and that youve mostly made a plan for how you can get some extra cash together for your eldest. You cant change whats been done, and im sure next trip youll remember this and ask questions ahead of time - we live and we learn as parents. For what it's worth I think it sounds like you have done a wonderful job at raising your girls to support one another and to want to help each other out, and that your youngest gets a sense of happiness from being able to help her sibling is lovely. I have siblings and we have always been close, and this is something we would have wanted to do for eachother at your girls age(s). We also wouldnt have seen it a) a duty or b) a failing on our parents side. money was tight for us and we often didn't have what others had, however we would treat each other with our birthday money. I got my first job at 14 and as the oldest i loved to treat my siblings. Financially as adults we have never taken advantage of each other or seen it as a duty / responsibility to help each other. Ultimately our money was ours to spend how we wanted, be that on ourself or each other. I would feel proud of my children for offering to help, and give yourself some credit for that too. Its easy to be hard on ourselves but sometimes there is good there that we goes unnoticed.

Do you buy any luxuries for yourself make up, alcohol, cigarettes you could give up to help pay?

Parents shouldn’t expect their kids to feel sorry for them.

I have two brothers who each have a daughter. They spend time at my mums together as they get on. They both come from families without a pot to piss in. One brother and his gf will constantly be telling the kids, no we can’t afford that, we need to pawn our phone, we’re skint. She knows which days they get their benefits. The other neice is in exactly the same financial situation. Her mum budgets well and I guess she doesn’t make a big deal of their situation.

A year or so ago my mum spoke to them about school trips that were coming up and one said, ‘I won’t be able to go, we won’t be able to afford it. We’re too poor.’ Which shocked everyone as who describes themselves as poor!

My other neice was really shocked and said ‘are you? I’m going on my school trip, my mums rich’. And the contrast between their experiences was crazy. As neither of their parents work, both have always been on benefits their whole lives. But one was sheltered from the reality of the situation. And I felt really sad for the one who knows the truth. Because she must live her life constantly worried about trips and treats and not wanting to ask. Sometimes kids should be able to be kids and not have adult worries

Exactly! Poor kid, that she dares to spend Christmas and birthday money on herself.

OP- I am not sure how but I am very happy to send the £50 over to you. Your daughters sounds lovely and coming from a mum who has a poorly daughter who cannot go anywhere at this moment- I would be more than happy to give that to your daughter instead. X

Mumsnet doesn’t really approve of this. I have done it before by making contact on a private message sending through PayPal. Most people on here wouldn’t encourage it.
Sometime you can’t help it. I knew the regular poster and they were hungry.

I have DMd you x

Thank you- have done that. X

Why?

Our school has a fund to help out with people struggling to afford school trips - I’d definitely contact them.

If they can’t help I’d let younger dd lend her big sister the money but encourage older dd to get a part time job to pay it back quickly.

You are being unfair to your older daughter who will be humiliated in front of her friends and your younger one who is kind enough to give her money to her sister which you have rejected.

You are suck a lovely kind person. X

This

No one would expect for a child to go on a school trip to London for 3 days and not have to take spending money. Surely you would have thought this. Your daughter is a beautiful soul for wanting to borrow her the money, i think you should take her up on the offer. Me personally though I feel like it should be you that pays her back, shes 14 and its a school trip, so take it thats its in relation to something they are doing at school. Its not going out with her mates of a weekend to the cinema.

Dear Op your DDs sounds lovely and they might fight sometimes as you said but they can count on each other on the time of need.
I would allow my younger to lend the money. I understand it’s not a great feeling for you but she sounds like a very caring person.
I have an older sister and I would have done the same for mine. We also grow up pretty poor and I never knew how to save money, I also never got pocket money. But once I had more money I had learned to save so please don’t worry I’m sure your DD will be fine.
Also can I ask how much you paid for this trip? When my dd went to a school trip they didn’t ask them to pay for their food and extra stuff because it was all included. I find this very strange from the school. I hope they can help you out and I do know there is money for these kind of things at schools.
One more thing! Have you heard about Olio? It’s free food. You just need to download the app for free. x

London is really expensive! £45 will probably just cover the activity. Won't cover food for 3 days and spending money etc.

The OP has already stated that she has scrimped and saved and cut back in order to afford the initial cost of the trip. This snide comment is not helpful or necessary.

You're being so unreasonable.
Your younger daughter is absolutely lovely in wanting to help her sister enjoy her trip.
Not only is that perfectly reasonable, but it's good that they have each other's back. All you need to do is ensure she gets her £30 back.

Yep another patronising post. I don't know how OP is keeping her temper, frankly.

"I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare"
YOU didn't save up extra money to give your daughter - because you didn't know you needed to which is fair enough, but means that it's also fair enough that your daughter did save up, because she didn't know she needed it.
Honestly this isn't the elder daughter's fault any more than it's your fault. Either find the money yourself, or let the younger daughter lend her sister the money, because it's nice for kids to have a chance to be kind and it's her not her sister's fault.

I'm a bit surprised the school planned this trip without informing parents that they would also need to budget extra for food. How on earth are the kids going to pack sufficient food for 3 days? Wouldn't the kids all be together if they were going to eat out, because of the need to be supervised? Why wasn't a plan for food incorporated into the trip? And now, kids with lower income are excluded, even though their parents paid for the trip, because the school didn't disclose that the parents would also need to pay extra for their children to eat?

I hope the school has a private budget to help low income parents with food costs for trips like this. In my experience, they usually don't advertise such things (because then every entitled parent would expect access to this budget) but if you ask, they will usually be able to find some money to help out.