To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

If the school can’t help you this time, I’d borrow the extra £35 off your youngest DD and pay it back over the a timeframe you can manage. She clearly doesn’t mind lending it and it resolves the short term problem.

I don’t think your older DD should have to pay it back, it’s not her fault there was an unexpected cost associated with the school trip so she shouldn’t be left unable to pay for treats/nice things because of it.

Push back with the school about this whole situation, they should be offering financial support for trips and be upfront about extra costs. They’ve caused this whole mess, not you or your lovely DDs.

I would concentrate my efforts to working full time to be able to provide. Ideally a job where there is opportunity to top up with overtime for events like this. Shame supermarket has no more hours. Care home maybe? A 24 hour service place where you can get some 10/12 hour shifts in.

Are you going to look after her kids while she does those 12 hour shifts @1ladybird ?

It does my head in when people patronise those living pay day to pay day. Like OP hasn't already considered their options and whether they're possible.

This is really unnecessarily unhelpful and critical.

I am assuming this is a joint department cultural trip it isn't unusual and they will have booked it last year hence the Op paying in instalments, why shouldn't schools offer these trips? Are you saying you never were offered a school trip in secondary school?

Thanks for the replies. I have had a look at some of the suggestions for making extra money and I will see what I can do. I can’t really take on babysitting as I don’t have anyone to have my own children while I do it, but I might be able to sell some things and ask about extra shifts again.

There isn’t any help from their dad’s side unfortunately. He isn’t involved and neither are his family. My mum helps when she can but she doesn’t have money to spare.

Someone asked if my eldest could supervise her sister for money. I don’t think that would work as they argue quite a lot and my younger one would not listen to her. I wouldn’t feel comfortable leaving them responsible for each other anyway.

I do agree that I should have planned better. I didn’t realise how much the extra bits would add up to and I should have asked more questions. I am not expecting my daughter to live on sandwiches for three days, I just thought she could take some food and buy a few things. But I can see why people have said it isn’t that simple.

They just have no clue of how other people live,

Not sure what kind of job you work in, but with it coming up to Christmas if it's retail then a lot of places will want seasonal staff, so it might be that there is more hours available if you are in retail and speak to your line manager.

Also you say you work part time due to childcare but is there any reason you won't leave the 10 year old? I assume they are year 6? I would leave my daughter of that age for an hour or slightly longer, especially if I had a 14 year old at home.
Maybe prioritise the phone and working on what to do in an emergency so you can increase your day if that's holding you back.

Do you get any maintenance? Not sure if there is a dad involved somewhere who can contribute.

I think that it's lovely your girls have a good relationship and want to help each other out. You have raised them well and should be proud of your youngest.

I know it's uncalled for

@OneSunnyGreenTurtle when mine did a London trip I packed drinks and some snacks so they had something for the bus or hotel room, so when they stopped at services they would get a sandwich or a fast food and not spending money in wh smiths, would she take some drinks etc, I know at 14 everything is embarrassing for them she isn't unusual.

@MaidOfSteel

I think the frustration comes from a parent working part time only when the children are 14 and 10, and the children missing out as a result. There is no financial resilience here and that is part of parental responsibility. The solution is for the OP to earn more money to provide. If it isn’t possible to increase shifts or to get a second job at another supermarket, there are options such as dog walking, cleaning, etc. The OP has raised childcare as a problem, but could the 14 help with the 10 year old for a few hours per week? What about family? It is hard to understand the lack of self help, I say that as a full time working parent.

What planet are you on?

2 children who are secondary and nearly secondary? 10 or 12 hour shift I said. 10 hour is 7am to 5pm. Occasional 7-7 12 hour shift for extra money? It’s compressed hours so x4 shifts 7am to 5pm is 40 hours with three whole days off.

I really don’t see the problem??

Kids 10+ can make their own way to school. Mum can give breakfast before the shift and home in time for tea if working 7am to 5am?

This is literally what grown ups need to do. If you have younger kids then it’s more like 8-5 and you have to use BASC and work 5 days…

You have misquoted @saraclara she didn't say that someone else did, they were quoting them, that is why it was in bold.i see you didn't misquote at all .

@OneSunnyGreenTurtle santander are currently doing an offer where they give teens £50 if they deposit £50 into a new teen account.
i dont know how feasible it is before the trip but could your older DD open the account with the younger DD's money. Withdraw that money out & return it to younger DD and use the £50 bonus offer as spends on the school trip. I dont know if it could work - might be a catch but just a possibility.
Ignore the nasty posts - it is beyond me why people do this.

https://www.santander.co.uk/personal/current-accounts/123-mini-current-account

I do work in a supermarket so I will ask about Christmas hours.

My younger daughter is in year 6 yes. I have left her for short periods before but I wouldn’t want to leave her for a whole shift. She can be quite anxious and I don’t think she would be happy being left with her sister either. They get on well sometimes but can also argue over the smallest things.

There isn’t any maintenance unfortunately. Their dad isn’t involved and doesn’t pay anything. I know people keep asking about him but there isn’t really anything I can do about that.

Thank you for the kind comments about the girls. They do love each other really, even if they argue. I think that is why my younger one offered the money in the first place. I just don’t want her to feel she has to fix things for everyone.

A child shouldn't need to feel compassion for existing. The child.didnt ask to be put on this planet. And shouldn't be made feel guilty for wanting to be able to eat on a school trip.

What planet are you on?
2 children who are secondary and nearly secondary? 10 or 12 hour shift I said. 10 hour is 7am to 5pm. Occasional 7-7 12 hour shift for extra money? It’s compressed hours so x4 shifts 7am to 5pm is 40 hours with three whole days off.
I really don’t see the problem??
Kids 10+ can make their own way to school. Mum can give breakfast before the shift and home in time for tea if working 7am to 5am?
This is literally what grown ups need to do. If you have younger kids then it’s more like 8-5 and you have to use BASC and work 5 days…

Don't beat yourself up.

You are doing fine and have a plan.

Speak to school, they should have included information to ask for help with the trip costs for free school meals when it was first announced. They should have told you what meals were included and what would be extra so you could budget.

Hopefully all meals are actually included and they just need cash for snacks and the activity.

Op, you mention the older sister not being able to babysit the younger as they would fight... could this be an opportunity for them to learn to work past this? If younger lends the money, older pays back by earning money babysitting a little bit at a time so you get some time off, they learn to be more grown up, and older gets to have the money for her trip?

you’re being very very very unreasonable. You’re ruining a beautiful loving moment between two sisters. They could easily remember it forever.

My DD is 14 and everything is embarrassing to her at the moment (me included!) they just want to fit in with their peers and don't want anything that makes them stand out, at this age they lack the emotional maturity not to give a toss like us adults do, everything is about fitting in. I hope you manage to sort it OP, I know others have said it but your girls do sound lovely x

You are being unreasonable. Let her borrow the money. She cannot go to london with £15.

A teacher gets paid by the other students. And gets paid their salary on top. They decide on the trip. The students families do not.

Their expenses are paid - travel, accommodation, entrance fees. They aren't paid for the extra hours worked, which as pp said, will be 24 hrs per day. Plus preparation time on top of that. The school, not the teachers, offer the trip. Families can decide to accept or not.

Could your 14 year old look at getting a little job to earn herself some money? Not sure if shes just 14 or closer to 15. Maybe some light babysitting, or dog walking or lawn mowing for neighbours? Something sporadic but will give her a few pound to save a bit for treats for herself?

Also perhaps if you could even extend your working shifts by an hour a day if the supermarket would allow it, it'd really help and the girls wouldn't be alone for too long?

This. You’ve screwed up a bit here, OP. All trips like this require some extra money - they always do. Younger sister has done something incredibly kind and you’ve stomped all over it. Yes, I agree that DD1 should not expect this, but you can deal with that via an agreement that she is repaid via Christmas money.

Talk to them both, say you’ve had a rethink, and write out an agreement.

OP, firstly don't feel bad - this isn't your fault. I'm a teacher and organise a lot of trips as part of my role, and the school are in the wrong for suddenly announcing that an additional £50 is needed for kids to participate in the activities on the trip - this is not ok!

Please contact the school ASAP. Is your daughter on free school meals? If so, there may well be a fund which she is entitled to access to help subsidise trip costs.

Neither you nor your daughters ought to be in this position - it's not fair.

If school absolutely can't help, then allow younger DD to lend the money on this occasion but to you, and undertake to pay her back when you can (without leaving yourself in hardship). Older DD could help with this by selling unwanted stuff on Vinted, or possibly baby-sitting or pet sitting?

But seriously, try the school first. They have fucked up here in my opinion, and are not considering the financial situation of parents. This really makes me cross, and always has done! (I have worked in education a long time, and do everything I can to access additional funding for enrichment so that families aren't put in this position - Tesco grants and so on. Because it's really not fair and puts untold pressure on people who are already struggling! )