To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

Your younger daughter sounds lovely and I think you're being very mean about this. Let her give her sister £30 and you pay her back asap and your eldest daughter can pay you back from her Christmas/birthday money. Problem solved. You're making it into an unpleasant argument when it doesn't have to be and it's lovely the sisters care about each other.

Your eldest needs the £50. I don’t understand why you thought a multi day trip to London wouldn’t require spending money and £50 is not an unreasonable or excessive amount.

At the end of the day you have a choice, you pay the £50 (sell stuff, go without) or let your 10 year old do it. Yes I would feel embarrassed too if my 10 year old had to subsidise her older sisters school trip because I couldn’t afford too, but that’s the position you are currently in.

To avoid it in the future, increase your hours. You work part time with a 10 year old and teenager. You have no reason not to be working more hours, rather than keeping yourself and your children in this financial position where £50 is causing you such an issue.

Before anyone says, I am fully aware that an increase in hours will affect UC entitlement but she doesn’t have to work much extra to be better off than she is. There are plenty of calculators she can use to work it out.

I have a couple of suggestions.
Could you speak to her grandparents, aunts or uncles about her being given cash early in lieu of Xmas presents?
Or borrow off your youngest and pay it back out of your DD 14s Xmas budget from yourself.
Another option is for her/you to sell some stuff on vinted etc to pay the money back.
See if anyone can give you a monzo or revolut link to sign up with if you dont have either of those accounts - its usually a £10 bonus for opening the account that way.
Hope you manage to sort something for her - not having the spends will likely ruin the trip for her and probably upset you too.
The spends shouldve been mentioned on the initial trip letter so that everyone is making a fully informed decision about affordability.

You are in charge of the elder daughters birthday and Christmas money. When those events occur you give her money directly to the younger child to repay the debt. Dont give it yo the elder one if it runs straight through her fingers. She owes her sister money and she receives nothing herself until that debt is paid off.

Respectfully, you have a 14 year old and a 10 year old. You don’t need childcare unless they’re unable to walk home from school or take a bus together. DD was walking home at 10 as were most of the kids in her class.

i really feel for you, it’s an awful situation when money doesn’t stretch and UC locks people into a situation where they can’t up their hours to cover additional charges. I hope the school can offer a situation that works. She likely won’t be only one in this situation and the school should have things in place for this exact situation. I think enough people have said about how it feels to sit on the sidelines and miss out. I’d remember in the future that there will always be additional costs with these trips and save more. DD went on a trip and the whole thing was ridiculous with constant additions including meals, activities and finally a hoody saying they’d been.

Teachers should leave their home and families for 3 days/ nights, be working 24/7 for that time to look after the students AND pay to go? This is some level of entitlement

You sound like a lovely mum & should be proud that you've saved up & paid for the London trip. Hopefully you can sort the spending money issue

I got the impression they only just found out they need to bring money for food with them!

I think Mumsnet is full of people who have never received benefits and don’t know people who do, what with all the 100k salary and naice ham posts. I earn above average salary (just) and after all my deductions such as tax, I receive only a little more than my friends on benefits. That being said, I don’t have to pay the bills alone. That’s the difference.

I’d just like to say that you seem to have raised two lovely daughters and that I think you’re doing really well accepting all the advice on here and acting on it. Asking the school for help was the right thing to do. Asking family is too. I would also let your younger daughter help her sister and make sure it gets paid back over time. Best of luck OP, with all you’re doing (and are planning to do to get some more income) she’ll have a lovely trip. It will all work out!

Be very careful just assuming they have a Father who can contribute. My children don't as he passed away 8 years ago.

Agree. I think the school have not handled this brilliantly.

Your 10 year old doesn’t need a phone. The longer you can put that off, the better. If it takes a longer time to save for it, that’s a win in my view.

She has offered - you haven’t asked and that’s the key difference.

However so your older daughter doesn’t think she’s now her bank, I would sit down and draw up an agreement on repayment and how. For example what items doesn’t she need/want anymore and selling them on Vinted for example? An agreement X amount of Christmas money goes to her etc.

I think asking the school first as they often have a hardship fund. I know children at our school aren’t excluded BUT that hardship fund isn’t funded by a PTA as the rule is that PTA funds must benefit the whole school community. Where you may struggle is that they often cover the cost of the trip, but spending. Therefore they may say they can’t fund spending money. It’s worth being open and honest. There won’t be any judgement.

This! We were that family that couldn’t afford much. We didn’t ask either as we knew it would be a ‘ no’.
But in this case I would say let your younger dd give her the money and pay her back over time.

Have you applied for maintenance from your ex through the Child Maintenance Service (CMS)? Even if he is unemployed, he will be expected to pay a small amount in maintenance.

feeling poor among your peers is the worse thing.
you are creating a lot issues among your kids.
let them deal with it and your youngest lend your oldest
they sound more mature than you