To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

So sorry meant @Monty36 and the unbelievable post to interrogate the school

Could you give her £20 then you borrow £30 from your younger daughter and pay her back £5 a week? She may even come home with some change which can be your first instalment back to younger daughter. London is expensive.

You don’t have kids @Monty36 ? For their sake and any school they would attend

And I for one am very happy about this. I would happily subsidise my children’s teachers for these school trips

What a lovely sister - that breaks my heart. Allow it and take on cash in hand work to pay her back.

While it’s shit you’re struggling financially,
did it never occur to you at any point at all that she’d need to take some spending money?

I’ve sent you a PM lovely xx

Op, just wanted to say, I think you're fine. I would have felt the same, that I didn't want my daughter to feel she had to subsidise her sister. And I think the school should have done better than this. £15 or £50 is not nothing- when you haven't got it, it's too much and the school should have told you at the off. It's rotten of them to do this and not your fault.

please don’t say it’s an offer of money @PeachBlossom1234 ?

You are being completely unreasonable coming between them as sisters. My sis and i are very close and we would have done this for each other without question when we were kids. If you can't provide leave it to them to sort out. Your eldest daughter is also old enough for a part time job which you should encourage her to do as she sounds like she is going to miss out on a lot of things if the only money she gets is Christmas or birthdays. Have you thought of upping your hours or training for a new job? Not being able to whip up £50 sounds like a miserable existence for you and your girls.

None of your business, but no.

Check the posts! That wasn’t me!
I’m an HE lecturer who leads overseas field trips … I know exactly how student/pupil trips are costed.

I’d ask the school for financial assistance first as you should be eligible for pupil premium where you claim Universal credit and it’s there to use for trips and educational purposes. If you find your not entitled to it then I think you should let the younger sister lend the older sister the money and then have her pay it back when she can

I do not want a verbal fight. But I do like an exchange of ideas. Without insults. That should be possible.
All I am doing is expressing exasperation at a system that allows for a situation such as the OP’s to occur. There must be a better way.
I also have personal experience as a child of the impact of a school visit. It can have an incredibly long lasting and damaging impact on relationships in a family. I don’t think schools have given one thought to potential impact.
I do think there should be some limits on state school costs/spend on visits. Or the number of them. I wonder how many children do not go because they cannot afford to. I doubt anyone collects that information.
I also wonder how much the visits cost each school to do.
A school trip is nice, but they have become far too many and far too frequent. And I think overseas is now considered normal as well.
I am shocked that so many people believe teachers can and should be the only people to decide on a school trip. I think parents should have an input. Where to go, how much, and how often. Parents should have more information on costs.

The whole thing has already become between them. And their mum.
It should never happen.

You are not trading ideas you are insulting teachers who give up their free time to provide experiences outside of a school setting for children, I wasn't being back and forth insulting you, I was wondering what made you so bitter ? You are obviously under no obligation to answer that. I also have no idea what negative impact you mean, the op.didnt forward plan for spending money she admitted that.

I think it’s lovely that your youngest wants to help her sister out. If I had any concern about it, it’s that they obviously get “some” kind of allowance that meant she could have saved up herself for extra spending money. Having said that, I think you need to find the £50 yourself, whether that be borrowing it off your youngest, the school, an overdraft, or from an older friend/ relative. It is, in effect, part of the cost of the trip. There’s no point in going without to pay for a trip that’s not going to be enjoyed.
I WOULD have a serious conversation with your older daughter about financial responsibility though, and the need for HER to put some money aside for when unexpected costs crop up. We all need a safety net sometimes. Maybe even do it together, as it doesn’t sound as if YOU have one. It doesn’t need to be a lot put aside every month, but even a couple of £ would have helped in this situation.

I am expressing an opinion. I do feel the schools are letting children and parents down. Here they have anyway.
You asked me if I was up for another round. ie a verbal fight. I am trying to say what I am bothered about but do so without inviting insults. It should be possible.

But you don’t have any kids at school
and none of us on this thread with kids at school agree with you
we are all happy to subsidise teachers on school trips

I would ask the school what they are bloody well thinking of. Who decided a three day trip after school holidays was a good idea ?

I mean… where does one start with a poster like @Monty36 ?

We were poor as children. Couldn't afford school trips, decent gym clothes or even a TV for many years. It didn't build my character, it made me feel inferior and bitter.

It might be worth pointing out if she wants to do a similar trip she needs to save some of her money in future.

This! You've known about this for almost a year and it's never once entered your head? My first question to my boys when learning about a trip was always 'and how much will you need to take with you?' so I knew what I needed to find and when. Your poor kids, it's not their job to make sure they are covered financially, it's yours! You really need to plan things a bit better in future...

Why isn't he paying for his children? You need to make him pay for them.