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To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

379 replies

OneSunnyGreenTurtle · Yesterday 15:32

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

OP posts:
babyproblems · Yesterday 21:59

Speak to the school first and explain - ask them if they can cover any of the extra cost and also how much are they suggesting the children take?
If they can’t cover it I think you should let your DD lend the money and you pay her back.
what lovely girls you have! Xx

waterrat · Yesterday 22:00

You are clearly a loving mum and have two great girls.

I would want to really clarify the entire trip and spending on it. Please tell the school you thought you were covering it all by paying the first sum. Its really important you know which means are covered and what the school are expecting you to cover

I honestly hate that scholll trips cost money. And they certainly shouldn't have hidden extras.

MonkeyMaze101 · Yesterday 22:01

If the school can help, and hopefully they can, then I recommend not telling your daughter where the extra came from. Perhaps just tell her you've cut back or you borrowed from your mum or something. Just so she doesn't feel any sort of way if Perhaps the teachers knew the school helped. I'm not saying it's shameful, that's exactly what the funds are for and should be used when needed, but you know kids these days would be mortified by the smallest things.

I really hope the school can help. Also definitely pack snacks and a refillable water bottle x

Darkcarpark · Yesterday 22:02

OneSunnyGreenTurtle · Yesterday 15:32

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

As you are on UC, Look at your local authority website to see if they can help you with the household support fund.

StableCable · Yesterday 22:05

Can you get extra hours at work? I would ask the older to babysit the younger and earn the extra? Then she is sort of earning it too.

I frequently do this - my dc know that if they want to go on trips and excursions, Mum has to work extra shifts and they have to do their bit at home while I do.

Failing that, and given that the cash exists in the home. I would 100% let the younger lend to you and pay her back at some point. Getting a new phone is not time pressured so you have time to repay.

I really wouldnt make this such a big deal. Both girls will remember the stress and worry. They have come up with a solution- take it.

DisorganisedMummyTurningOrgnaised · Yesterday 22:06

Oh OP, what an amazing little soul your youngest is. I would let her lend her elder sister the money. This is bonding moment for the both of them - let them have it.

EmeraldShamrock000 · Yesterday 22:06

DaringPinkSamsara · Yesterday 20:53

It’s a shame really….. I understand there are rules etc & obviously I don’t want to break them (or encourage others to) was just thinking of a quick fix to help this family out ♥️

It is frowned upon so you don’t get scammed but it is not against the rules. OP would have to agree to accept the donation. You could send a dm but most likely it won’t be accepted, one thing that comes hand in hand with poverty is pride and shame.

PurpleBadgers · Yesterday 22:08

Let the youngest lend her sister the money. You didn’t force her to, she offered. Either you, or your eldest daughter pay it back over a number of weeks/months.
seems like a lot of drama over nothing.

RumPidgeon · Yesterday 22:11

Kindly, I think you’re being unreasonable. Let your daughter lend the money and let them draw up a contract that your older one owes that money back.
It‘s a sad reality but £50 sounds about right. Apologise to both girls and draw up the agreement.

Rubyupbeat · Yesterday 22:13

I would ask the school. They usually have a. Pot for those kids in financial need for trips
I do feel that parents should have been made aware of any extras needed

And I do feel its ok for the younger child to loan the elder one.

LiveTheDream8998 · Yesterday 22:16

Ohh I really feel for you all!

Firstly, I'd email school- "my daughter has said that they should take £50 spending money for xyz and this hasn't been communicated by school so I'm just checking."

You could even include or follow up with.... since I was unaware of the additional costs and due to Christmas coming up ( they don't need any further information) I haven't budgeted for this."

See what they say.

I totally understand how you may feel with younger daughter offering but please give yourself some credit here. Your daughter has offered to help. Praise her for it. Treat her (retrospectively) for it- and maybe even come up with a plan to repay her.

If you know you could repay in 4 weeks. Tell her 6 .. but try to keep it 4. You're doing your very best. Raising thoughtful girls.

But... school do need to know they cant just spring this additional cost, too. Start with them. X

ITMA2000 · Yesterday 22:18

Just give her the money. She also obviously has a father- get him to contribute as well. The only people who are helpless in this situation are the children.

Babyboomtastic · Yesterday 22:26

I'd say borrow it from the younger sister but you pay it back not the older sister.

Clearly things are very financially precarious, and I've got a lot of sympathy with that. I'm not going to suggest you suddenly find full-time work, but that maybe you reassess options for getting a little more cash in. Just so you've got a bit of contingency and wriggle room in life. I think that'll take a lot of pressure off you as well.

There may be work you can do from home in the evenings, call centre stuff etc, or coming home by 4 rather than 3 given your children's ages.

I'm absolutely not coming at this from a 'well you should have earned more' attitude, but one of concern. If a child loses their bus pass, or you realise the chicken in your fridge has gone off a day early, or your child's trainers fall apart and they've got pe tomorrow. Those sorts of things happen all the time and unexpectedly and living on an absolute knife edge won't be doing your mental health any good either.

It doesn't need to be a lot, but something to relieve the pressure. A few hours in the evening a couple of nights a week could be the difference between just shrugging and going to buy a new pair of trainers, or panicking about how you can afford them.

Best of luck.

AliceMcK · Yesterday 22:26

I know you’ve had a lot of advice and we are quite a few pages in, but wanted to say my thoughts. We are on UC and struggle.

If DD is on free school meals then main lunches should be provided for. Check the details of the trip.
Definitely get her to take a refillable water bottle for drinks, personally I’d rather save money for something else than buying drinks when out. You can get one of those small concentrated cordial bottles she can add to free water.
Maybe add a couple of cans of pop or if she likes coffee some cans of coffee she can take one or 2 out with her during the day.
Send with plenty of cheap snacks, packs of sweets etc so she dosnt have to buy sweets and treats when out.

Offering to lend money is something my DDs would do for each other, they have done when I’ve said no to things. I would let your dd do it if you can’t make it work. Talk to older DD about wasting money, there is nothing embarrassing about bringing your own food to save what you have to enjoy an activity or single meal out. I’d encourage her not to spend it for the sake of spending it, use what she needs for the food or activity and what’s left give back to her sister so she’s reducing her debt.

Pre being on UC we were very comfortable, our DDs were use to use saying yes more than no, but they get it that if we are wasting money on junk they miss out of other stuff. We take water, snacks, pop everywhere with us. On school trips they often have the best sweets as it’s stuff I’ve packed that might not be available where they are staying.

potenial · Yesterday 22:34

I'd also say to ask school exactly what is provided versus what the kids have to pay for themselves, and ask whether there's a recommended amount of spending money, and if there's an upper limit (or a lower limit if they're expected to pay for actual meals themselves). You probably also want to check what kit is required, and check ASAP that you've got it, or can borrow it.

Having been on trips like this in the past, usually hotel/hostel breakfast, a packed lunch and evening meal will be included, and usually all activities and transport, and the 'pocket money' is usually for souvenirs and snacks - so stuff like ice cream, drinks and cake in museum cafe, teddy from the gift shop, KFC from the services on the coach stop en route home.
For an optional extra activity, I'd imagine it'll be something along the lines of 'there's free time on Thursday evening around the hotel area, which has a cinema, bowling alley and arcade, where kids will be permitted to be if they wish', and your kids friends have said let's go bowling.
Or 'children will have a few hours on Wednesday afternoon as free time after our tour of Westminster around that area, we've set boundaries and talked about options of how to spend the time' and your kids friendship group have said 'oh let's go on the London Eye/ spend an hour in Starbucks/ go to xyz', rather than it being an official part of the trip. If it's a school organised group doing it, they should be able to give you the exact cost.

We always try to give an outline of what money we recommend as pocket money, and include the rest in the trip costs (so if lunch on day 2 is McDonald's, that's included in the trip costs paid by parents, we don't expect kids to bring it), but for city trips there's often opportunities for kids to spend money, and some we can't really avoid; eg service station on the way home, museum gift shop where kids are allowed to wander round in groups. I'd definitely say ask the school for recommendations on spending money, and then work out a plan for your daughters trip.

For future, I'd assume any residential trip will require spending money, and it's fair to ask when the trip info comes out whether kids will be allowed pocket money, and if there'll be a recommended amount, so you can plan for it in advance, alongside any specific kit they require. I'd also assume lots of day trips will require or allow some pocket money too. (Especially if you've got end of year 6 trips coming up this year too)

I'd also recommended, when you sign your kids up to trips, you have a discussion with them about spending money and how this will work - when I was younger, we'd often have to save up our own spending money for bigger trips, or we'd be told how much we'd get, and it was up to us to make up the rest we wanted, but obviously we'd be told about this reasonably far in advance, and we had pocket money, plus ways of earning money around the house and from family and family friends to allow this.
Could you speak to your friends and family about way your oldest could make some money? Stuff like babysitting, dog walking, car washing, bit of cleaning etc. It doesn't sound like you've got the spare cash to pay her for this, but do you have friends, family and neighbors that would pay her for this? If there's not time for her to earn it before the trip, she can use this to earn the money to pay your other child back ASAP, and then perhaps continue doing those things so she's got some regular spending money. She won't really learn to budget and save unless she gets the chance to practice that skill, so if you aren't able to provide her pocket money then it'd be good for her to earn it.

For this instance, thank your youngest very much for the kind offer, and if it's the only way, then take her up on it. Agree with your oldest how much you're willing to 'give' (that you'll pay your youngest back), and how much she will need to pay back herself. And perhaps also initiate some kind of discussion about other ways to thank her sister for the kindness of lending her the money.

FullLondonEye · Yesterday 22:36

HollyhocksandPeons · Yesterday 18:24

No, these are the words of the daughter, not the mum. Daughter understands mum has to work, provide, etc. and feels sorry for mum.

Yes, I know. Still fucking awful. The daughter shouldn't be seeing it like that.

WhatTheCatHeard · Yesterday 22:37

Let the younger one help her
And try and stop akimg the older one feel so guilty
I know times are v tough but but she shouldn't be so worried
I mean maybe try and raise some funds

hmmdunno · Yesterday 22:40

i think you are a great mother and people are missing the point a bit. You don’t want your daughter thinking of her sister’s savings as “family money”, who knows where that would lead. I was the kid with a packed lunch, no spending money etc and that was just the way it was. I think things are worse now in terms of the huge gaps between kids re family incomes, so it is not easy. If the loan goes ahead, I do think your older daughter should commit to paying it back - not to be mean but to ensure she recognises what her younger sister has done for her and does not take it for granted. That’s nearly half her life savings!

hmmdunno · Yesterday 22:44

Alternatively, YOU borrow the money, and pay it back more speedily. And your older daughter banks a percentage of any future monetary gifts, for contingency. They have to recognise there will be things that are not affordable.

Banannanana · Yesterday 22:46

For gods sake the 14yo can’t go without, that’s be awful for her. Let your younger one lend her the money and get your 14yo to pay her back, it’ll be good life skills for them both.

Motherofacertainage · Yesterday 22:55

If your child is in receipt of Pupil premium (or rather the school is) then please don’t feel embarrassed to ask; this is exactly what it is for! They should have identified your daughter themselves and offered support imho so if you gave explained how much of a stretch it has been for the trip itself i would be amazed if they don’t offer some help with the spending money. X

Harry12345 · Yesterday 23:16

Can I ask how much you are getting in benifits? I work with many parents getting benifits and unless they are in a lot of debt or their rent isn’t being paid by UC then they actually are getting nearly £2000 a month working PT. I was on benifits in the past and im not that much better off working other than paying a lot of tax and student loan back

latetothefisting · Yesterday 23:17

inpraying · Yesterday 18:17

You need to keep her back, I’m afraid.

£50 for 3 days in London is nothing. They’ll need closer to £250 to be honest. You should’ve thought this through.

don't be ridiculous. You don't have a clue how much OP has already paid and what was included in that. All main meals and daytime activities could be covered, in which case nobody 'needs' £250. I could easily spend 3 busy days in London on far less than that, including food, as a well-earning adult.

The additional money sounds as though it's for one activity and things like optional coffees or whatever when they are out and about, not like they are supposed to fund three days of full meals on top of what they've already paid.

It's not on OP to have thought it through when the whole point of it being a school organised trip was that the school should have organised it properly, and that includes making clear exactly how much money was needed, not adding on an additional activity last minute.

Chunkybabythighs · Yesterday 23:18

Harry12345 · Yesterday 23:16

Can I ask how much you are getting in benifits? I work with many parents getting benifits and unless they are in a lot of debt or their rent isn’t being paid by UC then they actually are getting nearly £2000 a month working PT. I was on benifits in the past and im not that much better off working other than paying a lot of tax and student loan back

....no they're not.

Harry12345 · Yesterday 23:25

Chunkybabythighs · Yesterday 23:18

....no they're not.

How much is it then?