To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

I think it’s really bad of the school to have done this, she was always going to need some spending money if they have free time etc but all the meals and activities should have been accounted for in the main trip cost!

Can I ask if their dad is about or grandparents? Maybe they could put some funds towards the trip.
as for you not letting your daughter do something so selfless and help her sister, this is more a pride thing on your part,

I think you should let your youngest lend to your eldest and you pay your youngest back . Could you take on extra shifts whilst your kids are in school? You will have these issues as your girls become older.

Children shouldn’t be dealing with the financial worries of adults. If she uses her sisters money, (if there is truly no alternative) then YOU need to pay the sister back, it’s unreasonable to think she would be going away for that length of time and be taking no money especially if you’ve known about this for the best part of a year.

I think you are being very unfair.

Been in a very similar position where things were very financially tight six years ago. We actually had the cant pay we'll take it away crew knocking at our door.

I certainly wouldn't have penalised my children due to my circumstances.

I would be selling items that I had, speaking to a relatives about borrowing, and then perhaps if that had failed I borrowing the money from the 10-year-old daughter who has so kindly offered. I think, even then her 50-pound budget will be quite tight

Oh OP I really feel for you. I think a lot of us take for granted that £50 can be provided so easily, myself included you really do forget how hard it is for others. It sounds like you’re juggling a lot with little help.
I really don’t think you can send your daughter to London with £15. I would be checking with the school around money as £50 for three days seems awfully low. What are they buying with the £50?

You are obviously a lovely caring Mum and I’d ignore the advice which ignores your fundamental problem…..there is no extra dosh available from your resources. As a one off, short term fix, your youngest’s offer is the solution, subject to approaching the school for some £££ help AND drawing up an agreement between the girls re the paying off of the debt.
I think the idea of you paying off the loan is a bit unfair. You will only be able to pay it by cutting your expenses to the bone and that impacts everyone including the youngest. When I was young it was common for parents to say ‘NO I/WE can’t afford it’, I think it’s harder now for parents, they are made to feel a great sense of shame when something is beyond their means. I think the school should have notified you earlier, perhaps making this point will assist you in seeking their help. Wishing you all the best.

Laughed out loud at the implication that teachers are somehow getting a freebie with these trips. My OH is a teacher and he would cheerfully pay to not have do them. Unfortunately they are usually compulsory and the staff have to take turns.

How will the packed lunches be stored on a 3 day trip in London? Also £50 for 3 days spending money , if this is to include lunch and other bits, is very low.

I haven't read the whole thread, apologies but just wanted to say what a lovely younger sister she is. Very kind.

I think it may be your own frustration and perhaps feeling a little embarrassed that you don't have it (though you shouldn't) that is making you not want sister to lend the money. I think you should, only if you know big sister will keep her word.

£50 for 3 days food and fun isn't going to go far in London, I do hope the school is helping regardless somehow. I would still pack in some treats and nibbles for your daughter to take.

Situations like this boil my blood. Years ago my 2 were going on a caravan holiday with the after school care club. They told me cost and I paid it every week without fail. One week before a letter arrives each child needs £5 per person per day. It was 70 pounds total. I just didn't have it. I was so angry it should have been added to the cost at the start and I would have paid it weekly as well. Fortunately my mum gave it to my kids.

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@Monty36 having just retired after 32 years of secondary school teaching, I have done more than my fair share of school trips. Before I was married or had kids, it was mostly ok. Once I was a mum, the logistics of childcare made trips a nightmare. The first one I did was when the DDs were 12 and 11. My dad actually looked after them so DH could work 50 miles away.

Being responsible for other people's children is much more daunting than looking after your own. On that trip, a girl with serious food allergies ended up needing her epipen after the accommodation mislabelled the porridge. Sounds ridiculous, but it is bloody scary when you have a teen slipping into anaphylactic shock. We grabbed it, injected her, called home and Mum was brilliant about it and the girl was fine, but that took a while to get over. Every trip has different incidents.

I did not receive a single penny other than my salary for these trips. Yes I had coach travel and in some cases air travel. However, I have had to take responsibility for passports and EHICs, spending money, translate things from German to English and vice versa even though I am not a linguist, work out where toilets are, magic up 100 bottles of water when the coach failed to meet us, navigate across Lisbon using the trams at night with a load of y13 students etc. etc. It would have been so much easier to say "sod it, I can't be bothered". However, the fantastic experiences our kids have had made it worthwhile, if exhausting.

Our parents really appreciated the efforts of the staff, even when things went wrong. They never quibbled about who was paying for the teachers; they recognised that their kids were getting an amazing cultural experience that they would remember for years to come. Your comments are one of the reasons I have left teaching. The kids were great, but some parents are appalling.

OP, if your DDs receive Pupil Premium. I hope that some of their pot might be available to be uses. In my school it was the Finance team who could help, and they were normally brilliant about it. I hope your DD1 has a great time, and your DD2 is a star!

Totally agree with this.

I don't understand why your daughter needs to pay her sister back. She's a child and not earning. It's a parental responsibility to make sure that your 14 year old has what she needs. You can't afford it, fair enough, so just swallow your pride and let your younger daughter pay and then YOU pay your younger daughter back.

The school should have been upfront from the start about additional costs, did they not state whether the amount you paid covered food? They shouldn’t be adding extra activities on, it should all have been included in the price of the trip. That said, your younger DD sounds lovely and I would let her lend it to her sister with the expectation you will pay her back.

Agree with this. Pay her back in instalments if you must but it should be you repaying her.

Does your daughter have a bank card? I will gift her the money if you want to send me a link or the details xx

Does the school have a hardship fund? I am sure they wouldn't allow one pupil to be missing out in this way. Plus, she would have to participate as otherwise they'd have to have someone supervise her separately if not taking part.

Let her borrow it and thank the little one for being kind. Agree a repayment plan to pay the little one back.

I thought it was pretty obvious that teachers dont pay to go on school trips and that the cost is covered at least partially by the parents. Same as I assume scout leaders don't pay to go on scout camps (apart from bigger international ones that they tend to fundraise for). They are giving up their own free time and time with their families to give our children experiences they may not get otherwise. I am happy to help subsidise their costs, despite not having much money myself, so that my child gets to have these experiences, although I only allowed my youngest ds to go on one residential in primary school (when my eldest ds went through the same primary they only offered 1 in year 6 which pretty much every child went on, but the new head introduced one every year as my youngest ds started there, which simple wasn't going to be affordable)

It didn't occur to you she would need spending money ? Our y6 do a London trip too and a trip to the theatre is included in the cost but if also factor in spending money for souvenirs etc .

Your 14 year old should NOT be having to pay her little sister back for spending money for a school trip.

YOU should.

It's not her fault that you can't afford it. Of course spending money is needed for a 3 night trip away.

You should be extremely proud that your 10 year old is so empathetic and could understand her sister's predicament when you couldn't!

In your shoes, and if I really had no where else to turn, asking her sister if I could borrow the money to give to her and ensuring I paid her back quickly would have been the first thing I thought of without putting guilt on the 14 year old.

Instead you've just made both of your girls feel bad.

It’s worth seeing what the school says but I think you should let you other daughter lend her the money then help older daughter sell some stuff or otherwise raise enough to pay her back

perhaps school should have spelled it out but you were a bit naive to not factor in spending money

I feel for you in your situation. I think the children are old enough for you to try and get more hours and even if he’s useless there must be a way to make their dad pay maintenance

You are being awfully unreasonable. And your younger daughter is being kind and generous to the older one. Why are you discouraging your daughters from being good empathetic people?