To not let my younger daughter lend her sister the money for school trip?

[OneSunnyGreenTurtle]

My 14 year old is going on a three day school trip to London next week. I have been paying for it in instalments since the beginning of the year and have finally managed to get the main cost paid. She is really looking forward to it and has been talking about it for months. But the school has now sent a message saying they need to bring money for food, drinks and an evening activity which isn’t included. Apparently most of the children are taking at least £50. My daughter says she will be the only one without it and is getting very upset about the whole thing.

I work part time in a supermarket and get Universal Credit. Money is tight at the moment and I honestly haven’t got £50 spare. I have told her I can give her £15 and pack some food for her, but she says her friends will all be buying things throughout the day and she will be embarrassed taking a packed lunch. She also says the evening activity is something they are all doing and she doesn’t want to sit in the hotel while everyone else goes. I do understand that she wants to fit in, but I have already paid for the trip itself and can’t just magic up another £50. I have said she needs to be grateful she is going at all, which probably wasn’t the most helpful thing to say.

My younger daughter is 10 and has been saving for a new phone. She has a little tin in her bedroom and has about £80 in it from birthdays, Christmas and money relatives have given her. She has been saving for ages and keeps looking at phones online. Anyway she overheard me and her sister talking about the trip and offered to lend her £30. She said she doesn’t mind and can save it up again, and that she wants her sister to have a nice time. She wasn’t being forced or anything, she came out with it herself. But I said no straight away and told her that her money was hers and she didn’t need to pay for her sister’s school trip.

This is where it has all kicked off really. My older daughter said that her sister had offered and I was being unfair by stopping her. She said she would pay her back when she gets her birthday money, although that isn’t until next year. I said that isn’t really the point and that a 10 year old shouldn’t be lending her savings to make up for what I can’t afford. She called me mean and said I was making her feel guilty for wanting to go on the trip. I know she is disappointed but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say no. I don’t want her thinking that because her sister has some savings, she can just use them whenever she wants something.

My younger daughter is now upset with me too. She keeps saying she offered because she wanted to and that I have made it into a big thing. She has even asked if she can give her sister the money without telling me, which obviously isn’t happening. The girls were getting on quite well before this but now they are arguing about it. My older one says her sister doesn’t mind and my younger one says I am stopping her doing something kind. I don’t want either of them feeling responsible for the other’s money problems, if that makes sense. But I also don’t want to make my eldest feel like she can’t have the same experiences as her friends.

The school has said they can bring packed lunches, and the evening activity is an extra thing they have arranged while they are in London. I don’t think the school has offered any financial help, although I haven’t actually asked them directly yet. I could email and explain the situation, but I feel embarrassed doing that after managing to pay the main trip cost. My daughter says everyone has been told to bring spending money and that the teachers won’t want to hear about it. I don’t know how much of that is actually true. She has also said she will just go without food rather than take what I pack, which is worrying me.

AIBU to refuse to let my younger daughter lend her sister the money? Should my older daughter just accept that she can’t have the extras and go with the £15 I can afford, or should I be asking the school about help? I don’t want to take the trip away from her because she has been looking forward to it, but I can’t afford to keep adding money to it. And I don’t think it is right for a 10 year old to feel she needs to help pay for her sister’s school trip, even if she has offered. What would you do?

@Monty36 I am a teacher. Teachers are not paid for by “parents subsidising their trip.” who pays for it varies depending on the type of trip. If it is a residential centre, often teachers are offered a place for free as they are essential, the trips literally could not happen without teachers going. The same thing goes for day trips, such as a zoo. If it is in private accommodation, their place on the trip will come out of the School budget. The school budget will also cover the numerous parents who sign up for the trip but then do not pay the entire cost. You would probably be shocked and surprised to hear about the types of parents who choose not to pay the full cost of these trips. It is often not the ones who can’t afford it, but the ones who certainly can’t afford it given the job they have, or postcode they live in, who choose not to pay out of a sense of entitlement. I have seen this over and over again, teaching in a very well educated and wealthy city in this country. Often we find that parents who cannot afford to pay like the OP, will not share their financial hardship, out of prize but will not send their children on the trip, that their child misses out and the social gap grows. They don’t do the trip in year 5, they don’t have the confidence to do it in year 6 as a result, so by secondary school the idea is out of the question and there appears have travelled and had life experiences that they have not been a part of.

Teachers are also not paid extra. They will work continually for the entire trip, probably sleep poorly, be woken in the night (for all age groups (Teens can be worse than younger ones for this!), they will leave their families and time off behind, and will not be reimbursed or paid extra for any of this.

Residential trips are really hard work for teachers. If a residential trip return is the day before their working day, it is highly likely that they will be teaching straight after the trip as well- literally the next day possibly without having even unpacking their bag because they are knackered from 24/7 intense work for however many days.

I just wanted to reassure you that teachers are not having any fun on residential trips, we’re working just as hard as we would in the classroom and harder. That is because we genuinely care about children and young people.

@OP Please do take up the offer from your School of financial assistance. Literally the type of families that we are targeting when we offer it, and I guarantee your headteacher will be pleased to help. I understand it’s a big deal to share this struggle, but they will want your daughter to have the same experience experiences as her peers. Please don’t send the snacks, let her have the money from School. If it is too late to apply for this money or it doesn’t work out for some reason, I think that she’s a massively kind thing that you’re younger daughter has offered and could strengthen their lifelong relationship. What a beautiful person!

I'm sorry but I think you're putting too much of this onto your kids. Your 14 year old shouldn't be getting a job, nor paying her sister back, nor selling her clothes to fund a school trip, not saving her birthday and Christmas money to fund school trips. You should have thought about this and planned for it, not her. And frankly the school should have said what would be required when they opened the trip in the first place. But it's sensible to assume a trip to London is going to require spending money.

This one time I would let the younger sister lend the money, and YOU pay her back. Not a 14 year old asking for her Christmas present to be a debt repaid.

Yes times are hard, we're skint, everyone is but it is not a child's responsibility to pick up their parents shortfalls.

So sorry OP. Do you have any friends/family that could help out? I’d give you it myself
if I could (speaking as someone who came from a family where money was tight which I found really embarrassing as a teenager).

She needs to take enough money to not be left out and sat alone on the trip. I'd speak to school first to see if there's any possibility of them covering the extra activity (annoyingly it would probably have been easier to get help with the actual cost of the trip, however you have already paid that). Then you only need to find a bit of money for snacks.

If school can't help, I'd borrow it from your younger daughter yourself and pay it back in fixed instalments. She sounds lovely by the way, you should be really proud.

I

You are being extremely unreasonable.

The younger sister is really kind and caring to share her savings. Also, a 10 year old should not have a smartphone so, if this delays her being able to purchase one, it’s another benefit.

I think as a mum you have agreed to her going on the trip then you should be prepared for the spending money, thats part of it. Pretty much all trips require spending money, was you under the impression it wasn't required? I'd borrow it and then pay it back yourself. I wouldnt say its down to your daughter to have to fund her own spends

I suppose you are right.

It makes me feel so sad that a hard working parent or parents can't afford these treats for their children. You've worked hard, you've saved and still its not enough.

I hope you can work something out for your daughter but just wanted to say you are doing a great job trying to provide for your family in the middle of a cost of living crisis.

Your younger day is a lovely girl for wanting to do this, bless her

God, some of these replies are harsh.

Just wanted to say well done for scraping the money together for the trip in the first place and trying so hard to ensure that your daughter doesn't miss out.

School does have money, there's an extra bit for pupil premium kids. I hope they say yes.

Ignore the people who've never had to live hand to mouth.

You say you are on uc - so if you found a job with more hours then they pay 85% of childcare fees tho at 10 and guessing in yr 5/6 can she not walk home by herself

our school is really pushing this now in yr 5 to encourage kids to be independent

Have you gone to the CMS so they can enforce maintenance from the kids dad? Doesn’t help for the trip, but hopefully once they make him start paying things should be a little easier

What a lovely gesture from your youngest. I think you should let her lend the £35 to make it up to £50 then you pay her back over the next however long.

I do think it’s poor form of the school to only just mention about spending money now this close to the event.

If everyone commenting on this post chipped in £1 each , the girl would have her spending money in time for her trip !! Can we do this ?

I’m sorry but there’s no way on earth I’d be forcing my child take a pack up at £15 when everyone else will be taking x amount. I’d be doing all I could asking their dad, my family anyone if they had anything to borrow. It’s not even about the embarrassment it’s the way your child will feel sat there amongst everyone else doing the activity and eating food they’ve all bought while your child has to reach into her bag and get her sandwich and little bits. I’d want my child to feel included and part of the whole thing not singled out

It’s not for you to decide on what phone a ten year old is allowed to have when the 10 year old is not yours however I personally wouldn’t be making my child save for a phone I would be myself to pay for it myself as a birthday or Christmas present that’s how it worked when I grew up that being said I didn’t really get an Amazing phone till year 8.

No it’s against the rules and also outing we are all anonymous

Personally I would let your youngest lend her the money. She offered out of the goodness of her own heart and it teaches both girls something valuable because the older one will (likely) want to try hard to pay her back. When I was 5-6 years old and my sisters about 9-10, our dad got made redundant and our parents had to cancel our annual Butlins holiday and we knew they were really worried about money. We grew up struggling anyway and so always saved every penny that a relative gave us. So we all said to our parents that we wanted to lend them £50 each to help. And we did. And I'm still so proud that we were (and hopefully are) that thoughtful to make that decision ourselves. Your daughter will likely feel the same way.

I’d check with school - is it £50 or is it from £50 and people will take more? I’d get her to take a few snacks with her, I’d be happy to buy some to send to you if there’s time?

Teacher here. Please contact your daughter’s Head of Year tomorrow and explain that you are very strapped for money and have struggled to cover the cost of the trip but just cannot afford the extra £50 spending money. Ask if there is any assistance for low income families. Schools do have some discretion with things like this. (I can remember discreetly buying food out of my own pocket for students occasionally on school
trips, but hopefully the school can offer some support before she goes.)

If you end up letting your lovely younger DD lend the money, it’s essential that a repayment plan and deadline is in place and that you make it crystal clear this is a one-off and elder DD is not to look to borrow money from her again.

Best of luck and hope you can get this sorted. But contact school as a matter of urgency.

I would happily chuck in a tenner but I don’t think there’s any way for us to do this.

It’s a shame really….. I understand there are rules etc & obviously I don’t want to break them (or encourage others to) was just thinking of a quick fix to help this family out ♥️

If neither of your children get pocket money or have any way to get money outside of special occasions, I don't understand the critique that elder child is not sensible with money. How can children without any regular money learn how to manage it?

Also if you have family who give gift money, and can afford it, do consider reaching out if you think they would be able to spare £10 for her. I have made it clear to my neice and nephew that if they have school trips and their parents can’t afford it, they should come to me. And my nephew wanted to go on his year 6 trip and while his parents found the money to send him (or the school subsidised him possibly, who knows) I was happy to buy some of the bits off his kit list, and got my mum and dad both got other bits: it was a team effort. We love the kids and would never want them to miss out on experiences like that. If you have close family who could afford to chip in (and you don’t normally ask) then it’s worth a group text with no pressure

Mine did a similar trip, 2 nights, 3 days. I didn’t give them cash but topped at their card as they needed. They spent around £100! Probably £40 off that was on items they collect, as they done a bit of shopping on the trip. But the other £60 was on food and drink. School provided breakfast and dinner, but they were going to fast food places or similar every day for lunch. I’d say £50 is reasonable, I’m sorry I know it’s tough but you can’t have her being the only one with no money to join in.