To think if your kid can't behave in restaurants you don't go

[hardshoulderr]

Unless you really need to eat.
so obviously lots of sympathy to kids who are Neurodiverse.
But went out to lunch this afternoon, quite an expensive place ordered the food and wine and a family sat down kids on iPads, no problem, the volume really low.
voices are starting to be raised, the parents shush ,then I look over and so don't worry it's no problem.

This then escalate from raised voices and slight frustration to the kid spitting across the table shouting and swearing. I literally can't focus on what my friend is saying because of the shouting and the swearing from kids who like primary School age next to me.

I work with kids - you know what I've loads of sympathy, but I don't spend my weekends wanting to have kids spitting next to me.
I go to the restaurant and calmly ask the wait staff if we could move around this corner out of vision of the Family.
By then, the dad has gone home with one, the mother and other kids stay to continue the meal.
I have kids who are not Neurodiverse, but even though were a pain in the arse when we went out to restaurants, therefore would avoid eating out , certainly not to place at lunchtime. It would be like pizza early doors.

Is this unreasonable?

My kids are great at times and others not so much, I cannot predict how they’ll behave at a certain venue at a certain time. Again, what setting do you work with children? As I’m quite concerned you’d take the time to write an online post complaining about children whilst saying you work with them.

Sorry, come again? I’m a higher earner for what’s its worth. Anyone who wants to dine out as a relaxing and enjoyable treat has the right to do so, that includes families, regardless of their monetary situation. You’re insinuating all parents have a reduced income and should therefore, not dine out in establishments people without a reduced income should. Disgusting. So yes, I actually think the hospitality industry does need me as a special advisor because I would not want YOUR custom with the views you hold.

Yes, but they wouldn't have many customers!

The worst experience I had in a restaurant recently was a young man in his late 20s (best guess). He was awful - talking very loudly and f this and that as part of his conversation (he wasn’t mad or arguing just being completely obnoxious). He was there with I assume his parents and either a sister or girlfriend/wife. It was a quite upmarket Chelsea hotel and restaurant and I kept expecting the staff to say something. Fortunately he quieted down once his main arrived but it was a palling. I’m kids can’t behave then they should be removed, if that means the whole family misses out then lesson learned (hopefully).

It's not a teaching moment to expect the most basic of manners to be upheld at all times, its a behavioural standard built from early experiences and putting the work in.
I enjoy adult conversation as much as the next parent, so I'll arrange childcare/leave the children with their dad or if neither is an option arrange a takeaway with friends post children's bedtime.
As I said, any child young enough to not be able to behave without a lot of input from a parent should not be using an iPad without active, engaged supervision. That's the thing I find most unsettling if I'm honest, either seeing a tiny child using devices so inappropriately, or an older child who has clearly not been taught basic social skills. Neither is good for society, one poses so many risks to your child.

What is your suggestion? Establishments ban young children? Parents hibernate at home with them whilst young and unreliably behaved? If you have such an aversion to a child’s ’fun screams’, pay for private dining. Or perhaps, you don’t go out, problem solved. Oh but, you have every right too but the family with young children doesn’t? Yes, says a LOT about you.

Yes some places have banned young children due to parents tolerating unacceptable behaviour

I'd go

Not if they want to make any money and remain in business! Most restaurants don't want to alienate their customers.

Now you might get a business which makes the 'tech free' environment their usp, but I don't think there'd be much call for it or there would already be several in each town. There aren't!

The thing is, you can’t have it all in life, and that goes for society just as much as it does an individual.

You can’t have the joy of generally well behaved children in restaurants on a societal level if you don’t have the culture to back it up.
In cultures where this works they have aspects which the majority of parents in the UK would find unacceptable.

Some are much stricter, more traditionalist. Some cultures revolve around food day in day out, where what you are eating takes up a large portion of family life and the idea of not sitting down to eat at the table often twice a day seems unthinkable.

Some cultures wouldn’t bat an eye if a child got a smack if they crossed a line drawn by the community and it would be fine for a stranger to shout at kids if they were to witness them misbehaving.
Many cultures find it perfectly acceptable to dine out for a few hours and have their young children play outside, unsupervised with the rest of the children, popping in occasionally to eat something or for a sweet course.
Would parents in the Uk be ok with restaurant staff looking after your kid while you finish your meal? Would the staff want to?

The Uk has loads of amazing opportunities when it comes to bringing up a family but restaurant culture that includes young children isn’t one that you can just import without difficulties.
There are too many opposing factors at play to make it work especially because society as a whole isn’t on the same page.
Where it works is when the vast majority of society believe in the same things and everyone goes along with it. We all know what’s expected and we basically all agree with it!
In the Uk you have groups who don’t want kids present at all, those who think only in caffès , those only in fast food chains, those only at lunch.
Parents who believe in letting babies feed themselves and throw food on the floor at home and outside of the home. Parents who believe it selfish to take their children to more expensive restaurants and those who think that as long as they pay they can than access anywhere.

Too many different opinions mean that someone is always disappointed with the experience.

You are clearly one of the self absorbed entitled people I refer to. As I previously suggested..maybe if your kid is going through a phase of letting out ear splitting screams you simply don't choose to go out for lunch in a confined space where it is going to annoy or stress other people and ruin their meal. Plenty of other things you can do/go to instead. It's called consideration for others

How are they supposed to learn?? At home!!

I would not want my experience spoilt OP. I don't want to hear any programme/ tech audio when I'm out.

I don’t see the problem. Yes, the kid did kick off, admittedly quite angrily, but then a parent removed said kid from the situation. They responded! Maybe they should have acted sooner, but they did react to the situation.

The plate lickers mum DID care though

It's really not hard work.
I have AuDHD 8 year old girls and I took them to a restaurant for lunch today and the conversation flowed betwixt the 3 of us.
And, it's NEURODIVERGENT, not neurodiverse, which is no excuse for shitty behaviour.
Most children I see playing up in public are middle class and NT with ineffectual parents who use sing song voices to pacify their crappily behaved urchins.

Not that i'm saying a child sitting on an ipad or similar the whole time is ok by any means, but please enlighten about what alternative measures you would use to keep them entertained once (or before) the food is eaten, and the novelty of colouring etc has run it's course, to allow adults some interurrupted time to eat or talk? (In a restaurant with no kids area/soft play/garden area) I remember when my eldest was about 18mths we were at a restaurant, with one of those rubbish wooden cube highchairs with crappy straps.
She kept trying to climb out continuously but was too young to stay occupied for any activity or toy for that long (i had taken a whole bag of toys/games/books/colouring) Putting afew episodes of Peppa pig on was a lifesaver to actually allow me to eat my food!
Everything in moderation....

What do you count as Tech? What's wrong with a phone?

There's nothing wrong with a phone. I think it's pretty much understood by all that no tech means don't play noisy kids programmes or football or whatever on your phone or tablet. In fact, use tech if you want, but use headphones so other people aren't forced to put up with it.

You eat out 3 times a week?

If your kid can’t sit quietly and converse with the people they’re with, they shouldn’t be taken to a restaurant. It’s not ok in any situation for one person to spoil many other people’s experience.

You start in casual places with quick service, and work your way up to more sedate places where service can take a while.

Agree!

still disagree that you need to learn how to eat at a restaurant at a restaurant

you could just eat at home notnally and then go to a restaurant when you're like 18 and a lot of people did in the past

unleass you're saying that people brought up in poverty who Didn't eat in restaurants, acted like savages when they eventually get there?!

@wishfulthinking25 yes, I do think the parents should curtail their social life when they have kids and perhaps pay for a babysitter to go out for a restaurant so everybody else doesn't have to put up with that screaming