To think if your kid can't behave in restaurants you don't go

[hardshoulderr]

Unless you really need to eat.
so obviously lots of sympathy to kids who are Neurodiverse.
But went out to lunch this afternoon, quite an expensive place ordered the food and wine and a family sat down kids on iPads, no problem, the volume really low.
voices are starting to be raised, the parents shush ,then I look over and so don't worry it's no problem.

This then escalate from raised voices and slight frustration to the kid spitting across the table shouting and swearing. I literally can't focus on what my friend is saying because of the shouting and the swearing from kids who like primary School age next to me.

I work with kids - you know what I've loads of sympathy, but I don't spend my weekends wanting to have kids spitting next to me.
I go to the restaurant and calmly ask the wait staff if we could move around this corner out of vision of the Family.
By then, the dad has gone home with one, the mother and other kids stay to continue the meal.
I have kids who are not Neurodiverse, but even though were a pain in the arse when we went out to restaurants, therefore would avoid eating out , certainly not to place at lunchtime. It would be like pizza early doors.

Is this unreasonable?

Why is it a hard one? We taught our children table manners and how to behave at home. We didn't have all meals at the table but when we did they were expected to sit, chat at a normal level and behave like civilised human beings. We used to go to a chain that had a play area and they never ran about just went in the play area when allowed. Tech wasn't a thing when they were little, i am thankful for that but hope i wouldn't have shoved them in front of it constantly.

Oh behave. And yes I do mean you.

kid spitting across the table shouting and swearing.

if that's their child's behaviour, let's be honest, there's no parenting anywhere. Neither at home or when they go out.

Sometimes parents have to admit that their lifestyles have to change and they have kids. Not sometimes, lifestyle change full stop.
But parents also have to PARENT and too many don't bother. You see it on here, where some people genuinely believe saying no and putting boundaries is abusive and will cause deep adulthood trauma.

We never took tech for our kids. We took colouring, books, mini games and accepted that we weren't going to be sitting down for a leisurely 3 course meal and chat. We had to adapt our preferred plans temporarily while the kids were little and spend time/effort keeping them entertained and well behaved.
Appreciate that some ND kids particularly might need an iPad, and if other families choose to have a quiet time by bringing tech for all their kids, that's up to them (as long as they bring fucking headphones too!). At least the family tried to manage the situation by removing the naughty child I suppose.

@LondonPapa interesting though, the kids were obviously miserable and wanted to leave

Should've added, the place was not a pizza restaurant but parents, with the restaurant permission, got pizza for the kids to eat. Surely that's a sign that they might not be the right restaurant for you.?

I think YABU purely because you don't know what's behind it. From what you described, the parents took the child out and tried to fix the situation, so clearly they weren't expecting this. It's very different from kids running around or shouting and parents not doing anything.

We've avoided taking our kids out for meals fro over 2 years, but we're getting to the stage we're we sometimes have to (family gathering, or just out in a different town for a day trip).
They'll behave 6 times out of 10, be difficult 3 times of out 10, and be freaking horrible 1/10. Once we've ordered or if there is nowhere else around, we're stuck. We do our best and get out asap, but we can't always predict what will happen.

And no, we won't eat take away pizza on the pavement.

True, it's famously impossible to teach a child to behave in a socially acceptable manner outside of the environs of a Michelin star restaurant.

In noisier places such as fast food restaurants or family cafes.

But it sounds like they did the right thing. Quiet tech. Kid then kicks off, gets taken home immediately.

It might have been their first go at it. I think it’s great dad took the kid home. Even if one of the others then was a bit naughty - it shows the kid that went home that he will miss out. Probably learn for next time.

Yep. One of my children is diagnosed, the other not but probably is. DH is definitely on the spectrum. All behaved well when we went out to eat! I even remember having to take the non diagnosed DC out for movement breaks in between courses. As a family we have always sat down to dinner together and had expectations whilst at the table.

Sounds like poor parenting. My kids never have tech at restaurants (they have tech at home just never when eating) and generally behave themselves. We risked a fancy restaurant for dinner when on holiday in Copenhagen (just below Michelin level) and they were really good. Did colouring nicely, chatted etc. But we wouldn't have gone had we known they wouldn't have behaved, and we made sure there was food they could eat.

They learn by you leaving everytime they do something antisocial. Eventually they learn to behave so they can stay until ice cream time.

I don't understand the question "how will they learn?"

With lazy parents, they never will. They wouldn't behave so badly if they were being raised properly in the first place.

There are so many threads on here where people laugh at the concept of table manners, or manners in general. There's one about licking your plate at the moment. Some people don't believe or dont' care about children behaving, they will never get better

I was in a restaurant a few weeks ago and there was a child in there with a tricycle who started riding it around the place, around waiting staff’s legs even - couldn’t believe my eyes!

I have found over the years that parents with multiple young kids like this either have kids that are feral or beautifully behaved. There seems to be no middle ground.

At least it's parenting (of a sort) and not letting the little darlings run feral round the restaurant

Learn at home and also at school. I used to be a parent reader at my DD’s school and I also sat with with the children at lunch (year two) where I would help them if they struggled to cut their food, did not allow them to get up and down from the table, modelled the use of please and thank you and they had to ask to leave the table. This was an international school in China.

It’s down to parenting and parents being responsible for their offspring. Plenty of times I see well behaved children eating nicely at the table with no screens but equally there are those who run around, have IPads on loudly and parents who allow this.
restaurants are for everyone, so please if you do take children, parent them, no one minds as long as they behave appropriately, IPads on loudly is not parenting.

With effort, parents don't have to allow either of those things.

My kids were born before tech was popular and yet they never once ran feral around a restaurant.

We just simply would not allow it.

How unpleasant. But I tend to be of the view that lunch time is fair game, even in a more upscale restaurant. I would hope for decent behaviour, or at least to see that the parents are trying to teach their children how to behave. A family with tired children rocking up to a posh restaurant for dinner at 9pm is another thing entirely.

Our DCs weren’t perfectly behaved but we started early and started small. Good table manners at home first. Having a conversation over a meal. Trying new foods at home. Starting with more family-friendly restaurants where you’re likely to be served quickly. Ordering quickly, even if it’s just bread or a starter. Taking tech, colouring, reading, stickers so there’s a contingency plan. Being prepared to bale if it all goes wrong.

I think children should be able to eat in any restaurant but they don’t miraculously go from eating dinner on their knees with an iPad to behaving beautifully at The Savoy - you have to put some effort into it.

And yes, I’d be equally annoyed at your experience @hardshoulderr

You're missing so many opportunities to teach your child basic manners, not to interrupt others speaking, appropriate conversations at a dinner table etc.
There are so many children that will be turning into adults that believe every situation should revolve around them and their interests and haven't developed their conversational skills, truly frightening and lazy parenting.

That’s your rules about tech, not mandatory law!

I’ve taken children out of both supermarkets and restaurants or cafes due to poor behaviour. Sooner on later the penny drops for them. It can be hugely inconvenient sometimes, but there it is.