AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

[Poster555]

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

... part of the reason for my concern is that this person is not known to me. I only know her first name
With hindsight it might have been a good idea to get her full details

Even if you'd wanted to I suspect getting her full details would be very difficult, @Poster555 - the more so if they both share the attitude their community's already making clear by insisting your tenant should house her. Full details enable much easier reporting to authorities and it's entirely possible she's been advised about that

Personally I liked the suggestion of getting a fake door camera; they may well remove it and claim vandalism, but it's worth a try

Why aren’t the friends of the tenant offering up their homes?

I have spoken to the social worker or duty worker, I’m not clear exactly which department she is from.

The woman basically told a pack of lies. She has claimed that she thought she had a joint tenancy with the actual tenant. That’s easy to disprove.

She has told this person that I threatened her with physical ejection ( I did not, I told her that she was trespassing and she should leave). She was the one who asked if I was going to physically throw her out. This was in a telephone conversation.

She also complained that the shower was unusable. ( it was a bit harder to use because someone pulled the rail down and I had to get someone in to fix it). Her friend took the blame at the time, but later admitted that she caused this damage, together with some broken furniture in his room.

The social worker both insisted she was vulnerable and shouldn’t be homeless and also that she did not meet their criteria for help.

We reached a bit of a stalemate, but the bottom line is that I told her the woman will not be allowed into the flat.

Makes you wonder what issues she has with her previous landlord - prob didn’t pay her rent and got kicked out esp if can’t claim anything

the tenants friends and community can help this female then if they feel he should

how long has she been staying - what is temporary in your contract

may be worth revising it @Poster555 to make sure this can’t happen again

The woman is apparently an unemployed homeless alcoholic. If she is penniless with no recourse to public funds then she needs to leave the UK & return to her home country particularly because she is already causing problems.

Sorry, I should have said dob her in to Immigration Enforcement not Border Force.

I have only recently found out that there is some sort of court case involving her last landlord. That was when she first gave my address to the police. My impression is that she is not the victim, but I have no firm details.
The Tenancy Agreement says occasional stays of up to 2 days before permission is needed from the landlord. It’s got to be quite mean as if everyone had frequent overnight visitors the shared facilities would be overwhelmed.

The social worker both insisted she was vulnerable and shouldn’t be homeless and also that she did not meet their criteria for help

Standard practise I'm afraid, @Poster555 - "let's see if we can get rid of this by passing it onto some other sap" - and all you can do is what you've done in making it clear it won't be you picking up the pieces

The "pack of lies" which it transpires this woman's told were sadly to be expected, and they're so predictable that I'm now more convinced than ever she's being advised ... very possibly by your tenant

PM the op your address and I'm sure she'll put her on a bus (or train).

NRPF is not the same as being in the UK illegally. In fact, the majority of people who come to the UK from outside the EU as legal migrants have NRPF clauses, contrary to the popular belief that they're given free homes.
If you'd read the thread you'd have seen that the OP has already been given advice about what services can do - which is usually to help people return home to family- but if she's here legally it's her choice whether to do that, nothing to do with immigration.

I hope you are not right, but I can’t rule out the possibility that the tenant is continuing to help her. He didn’t let her in last night though.

I haven’t heard that she has been back from the other tenants.

I have a new microwave to deliver to the flat, and will only be in the shared areas, so will make an unannounced visit. I normally let the tenants know in advance as a matter of courtesy.

Yes you're not providing family accommodation it's for single people in rooms for one person. You would be in huge trouble for overcrowding if you allowed multiple people in each room and all the posters saying let her stay now would be saying what awful conditions people were living in. I would be sending a warning letter to the tenant saying any more breaches of the rules and they will be evicted.

I think you're dealing with a difficult situation in the best way you can.

It's really not fair for the other tenants to have a troubled woman unofficially moving in. It sounds like she has a history of causing problems wherever she is.

Continue to support your tenant by absolutely refusing to have her back under any circumstances.

Good luck OP.

Her friend took the blame at the time, but later admitted that she caused this damage, together with some broken furniture in his room.

I don’t think you can know who caused the damage. It is very convenient for the tenant to blame this lady.

A lot of good people feel bad following the rules. A nurse told to get a patient discharged from hospital with no one at home to care for them. A midwife with a patient who has numerous babies taken into care for neglect.
You want to help this person as you're a decent human being, but you have to follow legal advice.

If you have expert knowledge, then you'll know that one additional person can materially change HMO status.

I also sympathize with the OP. It is not just about financial penalties is it? Having too many people living in the house could mean that there is a fire risk or some other hazard. Rules are there for a reason.

If another tenant reports op she could be taken to court/fined as she will have broken the law.

‘Off the books’ is what slum landlords do. They allow over occupancy. They breach guidelines and rules. Why are people suggesting op becomes the type of landlord that most people despise?

Also why should 3 tenants suffer to help one woman who shouldn’t be there?

The be kind brigade could open their front room to this woman.That’s what I would suggest to the ‘friends’, council or police. If they are concerned let them house her at their expense in their bedroom. But they will no doubt have an excuse as to why it’s not feasible!

You have no choice really. As you say, you are permitted by law to house only a stated number of people. If you exceed this you are acting unlawfully and also breaching the agreements of your other tenants who have contracted with you to share amenities with a certain number of other people. I wouldn't want to pay to share communal spaces and facilities with 4 people and find myself sharing with 5.
I think the more involved you become in this woman's circumstances the more pressure will be put on you (including emotionally) to house her. And you can't.
So stick to your guns and refuse to be drawn in to discussing her, with the local authority or anyone else. It's not actually helping her, as provided she has a roof, she will be kicked down their priority list.

Why is that your responsibility though? Just reiterate you do not have and have never had any housing contract with her and she needs to work with agencies such as sw to find alternatives. Noone can force you to take her in.

Why can’t the friends take her in then?

Would you be willing to take her in?
My guess is not cat in hells chance 🤣

What if it was a convicted murderer or rapist?

Even if you broke the law and faced penalties and legal liabilities issued against you? It's not OPs responsibility. If the tenant wants to help then they should move somewhere and get a joint tenancy with the person. Although I bet they don't want that as it sounds like the person is causing issues.
OP has been a very reasonable landlord and has even spoke to police and is prepared to speak to others involved.