AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

[Poster555]

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

Ok don't help her then. It's just been my experience that she's more likely to stay away if she has other options.

I told her what I have done in the past.

Unfortunately you are right in that the tenant is responsible for their visitors. If you can be assured that he is doing all he can to not let her in, including changing the locks, then all you can do is advise to ring the police. Maybe fit a doorbell camera too linked to your phone so you can see things for yourself. If the tenant is scared of repercussions (he might be vulnerable to cuckooing), can you offer them a place on one of your other HMO’s as long as you trust them not to repeat this? Or would you rather get rid?

Edited to add that the Council might be useful in this situation as they have resources that try to prevent cuckooing even of owner occupied properties. Once they’re in and using substances it causes a whole heap of other issues.

Even though she caused damage and complaints from her other tenants?
All for helping people but not if they don't help themselves too. Behaving like this is unacceptable. The OP has a responsibility to her other tenants too, including the one who let her stay who now wants her out.

Why does her right to a home trump the right of the OPs tenant to have a room to himself?
Why aren't you offering to share a room with this person, or pay for her to have somewhere to live?

Oh stop it!

I would happily offer him a move to a different property, but I don’t have any vacancies.
I don’t have many properties, and most of my tenants have been with me for many years, so there is very little turnover.

If she’s a substance abuser, which seems all too possible, would you? If she’s disrupting the lives of other tenants? I’ve lived in a shared jouse (not strictly speaking an HMO) with an alcoholic who had mental health problems and it was absolute misery. You never knew when he was going to kick off or what you’d be coming home to.

Ive suggested what I'd do. She isn't in my HMO. When people like this have been, I've taken the steps I suggested to OP. They arent there any more.

Makes her more vulnerable

Just another NIMBY!

Good that you’ve let tenant know you’d evict him if he keeps letting her in. There needs to be a real consequence for him, both that he can quote to others and to stop him from rolling over when pushed.

Otherwise it’s ‘everyone against the officious landlord’ from relative and her friends’ perspectives - who clearly don’t give a shit about his preferences, your other tenants’ interests or any consequences for you.

Whether or not you find it hard to believe it is the case

Yes but you have a bedroom, why wouldn't you share it? If you wouldn't, why do you think they tenant should be pressured into doing so? And why do you think the other tenants should be pressured to share their kitchen and bathroom with an extra person?
Telling the LL just to get the help the person needs from adult social care or shelter just shows you really don't understand how thin the safety nets are. They're full of gaps for people who have full rights for support, let alone people who are here on the basis that they are self funded.

So take her in then. Sure you've got space for an airbed on your bedroom floor.

give the poster your address and let the woman move in with you...sorted

Vointoffiew.
You are obviously a landlord ( from your comments ) have you given your property to the local council, as you suggest OP should do??

This sounds like good advice... the council etc have more resources to help her than you do.
It sounds like your tenant is in a difficult position and this would also help him

I feel sorry for the tenant. He is definitely being put under a great deal of pressure.

I’ve just had him on the phone.

He has had a call from some sort of social worker. He is also not originally from UK and seems to fear people he views to be in authority.

He told the SW that I have said he isn’t allowed to let her in. I’ve repeated my offer to speak to anyone on his behalf.

Maybe if social services are involved she may get some help now.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’

Apart from quite rightly covering yourself in case of comeback, I'm not sure why any "presssure" your tenant's under is your problem to fix, @Poster555?

You've not indicated that he's vulnerable himself, so given the lies he's already told ("it was a one off emergency") I'd be taking a very hard line about NOT allowing her in if/when she reappears, and suggesting he blames you if he really feels he needs an excuse

I'm also wondering if each tenant has their own lockable door and there's a lockable outside door to this HMO, because if so how is she getting in?

From OPs updates, the unwanted tenant doesn't have the correct VISA and can't claim benefits.

There must come a point where someone thinks that as bad as their old life might have been, being homeless and penniless somewhere else isn't a viable solution.

As much as it might be a temptation to help with giving her temporary housing privately, her situation really won't change for the better.

They have no legal agreement to stay.

If they have said they are living at the property and misled that they have a tenancy agreement that's potentially fraud.

You don't have choices here.

Your tenant is in breach of their tenancy. You would be wise to bin them off.

You have a legal responsibility on the number of people living in the property for which you could be prosecuted.

Your insurance would be invalidated in these circumstances.

You have no idea what this person has done or whether they are cuckooing and carrying out illegal activity from the property.

The social welfare of your tenants is only your responsibility to a point. There are limitations as to how far you can go to look after someone before it turns into a situation where you are liable to be harmed if you do this.

You have other tenants in the property you have a legal and moral responsibility for too. As well as looking after your own interests.

You are a landlord not social services.

And as cold as that might sound, you could make a situation much worse if the council revokes your licence for an HMO and everyone is made homeless.

Realise that you can't save everyone and that there are limitations even for a good landlord.

If you're in a city, they might have a NRPF social work team. If she doesn't have care needs or a child with her, they'd usually link her in with churches or offer support to help her move somewhere that she has a network (family or home country)
Hopefully it will help, but be aware if she's determined to stay here illegally then she might not disappear. But at least if the police know the score they won't be bringing her to the house. I do feel for your tenant it's a tough position to be in when you might feel a duty to help family but it sounds like he doesn't have the means himself.

Surely you don’t need a court order to evict her as she’s not your tenant? She’s essentially a trespasser there against the will of the landlord and so it seems all the legal occupiers of the house, including the one who let her in in the first place.

Sounds like formally threatening the actual tenant with eviction if he allows his friend back in the property is the way to go. You don’t actually have to evict him, but it means he can “blame you” if his other friends are pressuring him to take in this woman. And if he does continue then ultimately you should evict him. It’s not fair on the other tenants to have their home taken over by this woman causing trouble.

The police will just look for an easy fix. This is not it!

I know what you are saying that I shouldn’t need to get involved.

I don’t think the tenant is technically vulnerable. He is helpful to his own detriment.
He is from a different culture and helping others seems to be the norm. He is getting pressure from his community.

I suppose my reasons for getting involved are partly selfish as I think it’s our best chance of permanently getting rid of her.

There is an outside security door to the building, a locked front door to the flat, and each bedroom has its own lock.

She has only ever got into the flat as the tenant let her in.