AIBU to tell a male friend his attitude is the problem in dating?

[ByRoseSnake]

For context, I have a male friend of many years who I did briefly date (approx. 3 months, 2 years ago), although it didn't work out. We broke up amicably, but as a romantic partner, it absolutely could never have worked due to fundamental differences in values, lifestyle, politics, emotional avoidance and a rigidity to routine that I just couldn't cope with.

Ever since we broke up, we've continued to meet as friends every month or so, just for a walk or a drink (you can throw me to the wolves if you believe this was a stupid idea haha). We have both continued to date other people, so often discuss that, alongside other topics.

Over the past year, I've noticed a huge shift in him - he has clearly become seriously bitter about women and his lack of success in dating. He has started complaining about women, outrightly objecting the concept of feminism and claiming that women have all the power (to the point we have almost had huge arguments), making claims that the women he has been dating are "too intense", "needy", "immature", "psychologically unstable" etc etc... 😫
He even started 'joking' that I was "erratic" and "full on" as a woman.

All this alongside making other offensive claims e.g. people who 'claim' to have ADHD are just 'retards'... (he argued this was a translation issue, as he is French, but I'm not convinced! FYI I have ADHD myself, so this was infuriating)
He has also 1) become completely obsessed with his body and gym routine, as he believes women are only interested in 6"2 men with a six pack, 2) studies dating app algorithms like it is a research project, and sadly, 3) completely lost his sense of humour.

Anyway, the last time I met up with him, I reached my limit and angrily snapped to ask him very bluntly "have you ever considered that the women you are dating are not the problem, but perhaps YOU are? Why would there be a pattern of women becoming anxious and leaving you because you aren't offering anything emotionally? Why would a woman feel safe staying with a man who outrightly tries to debunk feminism and women's rights? Why would a woman feel safe with someone wondering whether you are constantly judging their intellectual and emotional capacity? Are you SURPRISED that you're not having any success??" 😵

He didn't take it that well - and now I feel like a mean bitch.

It has been really painful to experience someone I considered a friend, respected and admired in terms of talents and their ability to love (albeit in a very practical way rather than the emotional depth I crave) fall down this worm hole. I wonder what they've been influenced by online, or by other men.

I'm so confused because he seems such a sensitive soul in many ways, and had a partner of 8 years before we dated, so it is clearly not impossible for him to form a long-term relationship.

AIBU to have criticised him directly about his attitude, or have i just added fuel to the fire?

He has taken the red pill I think.

Not all friendships are meant to last x

Well of course YANBU. It sounds like he is being influenced by the mad online incel community. I'd suggest he stops thinking that 'all women' do anything or are anything and just gets to know one woman at a time, if he likes her, and tries to stop being so harshly judgemental of others, if he doesn't wish to be harshly judged himself. But of course, you don't have to suggest anything. It;s not your responsibility to educate a misogynistic sadsack.

Somone had to tell the twat. He probably won't listen, preferring to exist in an online echo chamber full of red pill men looking for the validation of other men or who are making a profit keeping men alone and unhappy, but you gave it your best shot. Friendships often fall by the way side, and be honest - do you really want to stay friends with him? It sounds like he is starting to insult you as well.

I don't think he adds value to your life. Bin him off.

This. He's gone Tate. Don't waste time with him

Yep, these were definitely my fears (i.e. taking the red pill...) - so damn heartbreaking as the person I knew before all this had so much to offer to people. Now it seems like he's consigned himself to a life of loneliness.

Yeah, my fear was that he wouldn't listen and just use my attack as yet more evidence of how hysterical and irrational women are... rolls eyes

It's very sad but it could be a case of drifting apart from the friendship. I do not have the time or energy to be a misogynist educator.

I just don't understand why he wanted to meet up so often, with someone he previously dated, to discuss everything from dating to his incel-ly views? Someone who he knows fights against that? What was he hoping to hear or achieve?

Also sickening because it makes me feel like he's just been mocking me and making a snide commentary behind my back all this time - to where he shares his 'intel', who the hell knows

Because (in his mind) one of your jobs as a woman is to provide unlimited and free emotional support that goes only one way.

He can meet 'his people' on the internet. He won't be lonely.

Aaaaarghhh this hit home 😩I think that's possibly exactly how he had started to view me
I feel like a bit of a mug...

He did also confess that he doesn't believe in therapy, because ChatGPT can provide all the therapy you need

So I guess if he isn't talking to me, he's asking ChatGPT to validate all his emotional needs 🙃

He’s swallowed a red pill, and the real question is, why on earth are you spending time with someone like that, let alone feeling “mean” because you called him out?

I’d honestly be doing some self reflection about why you feel so confused and cut up about this. Do you feel some kind of strange need to ‘fix’ or ‘help’ him? Because those are red flags for your own self worth based on what you’ve described of him.

You say you’re confused of why he wanted to keep meeting you, but I think it’s glaringly obvious. It can actually be a pretty toxic trait:

1. You provide an ongoing source of attention or admiration to him, without any risk of him needing to step up and be a partner.
2. It gives him an ego boost that someone who once found them desirable still does, even if it’s ‘as friends’.
3. It keeps an option open, where staying friendly means he could maybe use you if the time is right/he has no one else.
4. It provides narrative control for narcissists. He doesn’t get remembered as a bad partner, he gets remembered as "the good guy" you still see.

OP, surely you are too busy to see this man ever again.

What were you hoping to achieve with outburst? To change his views or to vent? The latter - you’ve certainly done that (and I can understand why you were pushed to say what you did)? But to change his views? No, I think you’ll have entrenched them

You will have done him a favour.

He sounds a bit thick if he thinks all women want is a gym honed body

This guy isn't a friend

The only thing you are being unreasonable about is continuing to give this man any of your time.

He may once have been a nice chap, but he isn’t now. He’s not magically going to suddenly turn back into the man you thought he was.

He’s not your friend. He doesn’t have any respect for you.

I think you've hit the nails on the head. I definitely felt an empathic drive to help him and maybe even hope that his views could shift. But they got worse over time. Yesterday was the tip of the iceberg.

Hard agree with other posters that this guy needs to no longer be part of my life.

(And I could benefit from NOT 'helping'/reforming others before myself... especially incels)

I think, for old times sake, I might text him and say: you seem to have lost yourself recently - you were sounding like some online incel who thinks Andrew Tate is a man who can solve his problems. But you are increasingly unhappy. So it's not working is it? Hanging out wiht woman haters and ranting about how awful we all are, but continuing to hope you'll meet a woman who thinks the world of you. Can you not see how these two attitudes collide? Please consider taking a break from that toxic community - it's not just misogynistic, it's also so harmful to men, keeping them in a loop of anger and bitterness and loneliness, because of course no woman in her right mind wants a man who spouts the ludicrous backward views of some lowlife crim like Tate. You were a lovely man when I met you, which is why I enjoyed meeting up as friends until recently. You have a personality already. Don't replace its unique charm and ability to think for yourself with this online venomous burble.

I know it's not our job to educate poTateoheads, but it's always worth a single shot with people you like. DS2 started down this route when he was in his teens and it was all based on absolute fear that no girl would ever fall for him. He needed setting right. Obviously as his mum it was my job to do that. But I don't think the occasional nudge of an old friend is overly accommodating if it kicks Tate to the kerb.

That's my fear!! But what is done, is now done

He's a pig, stop indulging him and simply tell him if he hates women so much he should fuck off and date men.

Fair play to you.

But it will land on deaf ears, despite the evidence he and men like him are the problem.

Whilst they are a problem for our generation, at least they won't be for our kids as they will have taken themselves out of the gene pool.

And tbf, a lot of men are knobs, they just have the sense to act human enough fir long enough to trick a woman that she can do something to make him change and go back to how he was before (when he was wearing the Pretend Valuable Person mask)

If there was something in there worth saving, your friendship isn’t over. He will come back and realize you were just telling him what he needed to hear.

If not, you have removed someone who was going to bring stress to your life.

It’s impossible for a woman to change the views of a man who sees women as less than himself. People rarely change ideologies because of the views of an ‘outsider’ which he deems women to be.

It’s wrong to suggest OP has ‘entrenched’ anything. If women stay silent, that's taken as proof they don't care, agree or are complicit. If they push back, that's "entrenching". Either way, women lose!

Its not the job of women to try and ‘fix’ men who have these views or dismantle their ideology, particularly when it comes at great risk to themselves!