To not pay towards her rent?

[BugOnARugDrinkingTeaFromAMug]

My sister has struggled with addiction for many years, she's lost her kids (they live with their dad's) and been in trouble with the police.

She got into a rehab and got kicked out for taking drugs in there so we have kind of gave up on her getting clean. She bounced around from homeless place to another bit eventually got herself a flat.

She has now been sent to prison and because her sentence is over a particular threshold she can't get housing benefit and so is looking at losing her flat.

She has asked me to chip in towards paying her rent, she is planning to ask me, her boyfriend, best friend and her daughter to all club together.

I can afford it, I have a child I am supporting through uni and two children at home so it's not like I won't miss it but I could afford it if I want to.

The reason I am tempted to say no is - it is asking a lot of 4 separate people, if any of them miss a month or change their mind, then the whole lot has been a waste. She can only keep the flat if everyone pays (or someone else picks up the slack). So I can see a situation where everyone feels sorry for her in month one and two, then Christmas comes up and her best friend who has four children can't afford it, so I then pick up that payment too, she has an argument with her boyfriend and he decides he's not paying and before I know it I either pay the lot or. She loses the flat anyway and it's all been a waste of money.

So YANBU - don't pay
YABU - this is your sister, she will be off drugs when she gets out and this is a real chance to change her life. You can afford it so pay.

Just to add OP that she was using drugs and carrying out criminal behaviour while living in this flat so (to me) it's a null argument that keeping the flat will keep her clean. It didn't work when she lived there did it?

Lots of great advice, I think I am going to say no to the rent, her daughter and friend really can't afford to commit to this and I feel she is being disingenuous anyway saying it's only for two months, when I can clearly see it needs to be for 6 months minimum. So the fact that she's not being upfront (nothing unusual there) or realistic is not a great start.

What I will do is put the money aside and help her with furniture for her new place of she stays clean long enough to get one.

It's tough because she knows full well I can afford it and I think she is expecting me too offer to pay the lot (I can't afford that but she will think I can) because my life went the opposite way to hers.

I agree with pp. 8 months of rent will be much valuable to be kept for when she is out of prison. With that she could afford a deposit and the first 6 months of rent on the new flat.

There's no guarantee she will be out in that time.

It's a waste of money if she isn't using it.

Most of you can't afford it.

She mostly likely won't be clean when she is out and this cycle will repeat.

This is without the larger point if you all enabling her. Let her complete her sentence. Then see if you can help if you still want to.

does she have a social worker?

My personal experience with people like this around me is that sometimes one needs to hit rock bottom to change their life around, paying for your sister's rent is being an enabler, don't do it. Yes she will hate you and probably stop talking to you but you might be able to save her once she finds herself homeless or she might just become the homeless druggie type and get more deep into it. I would have a chat will her and tell her this: she is the only one who can save herself, you can't save her from herself. Be kind but firm.

No she doesn't have a social worker although she might get one when she comes out. She didn't want to be clean before she went in, she was quite open about it. She is only talking about getting clean now because she wants help.

I don't even think being clean or not is the issue, either way she will need somewhere to live.

That would be dependant on the probation service approving that arrangement. They might well not.

As someone who worked for years with substance misusers being released from prison I don't think you should pay.

YABU - this is your sister, she will be off drugs when she gets out and this is a real chance to change her life. You can afford it so pay.

Don't count on her being off drugs in prison. Drugs are rife, it's a problem nobody has been able to solve, because those who are determined to get drugs in will find a way. Not always for their own use but to 'sell' to other inmates - in return for what depends on what sort of person they are but the price is usually heavy.

From what you've said about her, and about your fears for what she'll do as soon as she gets out, this isn't likely to be her last spell inside. What happens next time? And the time after that?

I was going to post to say that rather than feel that guilt, because regardless of the rights and wrongs, that financial help usually just enables addiction etc, I would help pay the rent because I think you’re right that going from prison to a hostel would make it more likely that she would get straight back into drugs. I really would feel guilt in your position but with the benefit of being outside looking in, I think it would be misplaced.

Having said that, paying the rent on the flat for 8 months while she is in prison. That’s a tough call. And I think previous posters are right, it’s possible that you will end up being the only one paying. Then you will feel even more guilty if you want to stop because in that scenario you will be the only one to have not given up on her.

I think I would have to pull the plug now, especially as there is no guarantee she will be able to support herself when she is released. Will she even remain drug free while she is in prison? If the media is to be believed, drugs are a problem in prisons. And then, as you said, she may well come out and get straight back on it anyway.

I think you will get a more informed response to your dilemma from one of the agencies that support families of addicts. Al Anon is the one for alcoholism but I’m sure there is an equivalent for drugs.

From experience of a very similar person in my extended family don't do it. It's enabling. Nothing anybody in my extended family has done to help this person has helped. She also lost her kids, multiple flats and is more hopelessly addicted to drugs than ever. You can't keep helping them with their lifestyle choices. Just echoing other posters really you'll get stuck with paying or she'll lose the flat anyways. Or rip you off somehow.
Addicts have a way of shifting blame onto other people rather than facing up to things. It's always something someone did or didn't do and a series of unfortunate events rather than the consequences of their actions because of addictions. They can be very sorry for themselves whilst tearing the lives apart of the people who love them.
You can be there for them if you choose. And help them support themselves when they want to make positive choices. But don't enable addiction.

So I think you've absolutely answered it for yourself. I understand you want to help, but I think you've shown you know it may make no difference.

I hadn't even considered that she might end up inside again. She has been convicted before and received a two year suspended sentence, then nothing for years until this, but yes there is a real possibility I guess.

At the risk of sounding horrible, she's rather limited her choices herself though hasn't she?

It's pointless you paying her rent unless she's definitely going to get clean in prison and stay clean. Otherwise she's in that circle of drugs - petty crime to pay for the drugs - prison - homelessness indefinitely. And as you yourself say, you don't think she has any serious intention of getting clean. So if she doesn't lose the flat now, she soon will.

She'll have to go to whatever her local homelessness charity is as soon as she gets out of prison and present to the council as homeless. This isn't your problem to solve (and realistically, you just can't).

I wouldn’t want to help. There is no guarantee that she’ll be clean when she is released, otoh, I’d worry that she was clean but was then homeless. It is a lot to ask of someone.
I can’t advise you as it is shit either way.

Dahliasdelight post nailed it.

There's no guarantee she'll be clean when she is released either as drugs in prisons are prolific.

She wants others to pay for an empty flat for 8 months despite the many chances she has been given? She chose drugs over her children (why people have kids in these scenarios is beyond me). She will choose drugs again and again.

I am sure she doesnt want to lose her flat but she made her choices.

Its a hard no from me. As another PP says - what if one of the four dont pay for 1 monht. She will coming running to ther others to pay. What a bloody mess

A very valid point. I've dealt with clients in my job who have bluntly told me it can be easier to get drugs in prison than outside.

There is a massive shortage of social housing, there will be loads of people on the waiting list who would appreciate the flat. Don't let it sit empty for someone who has had loads of chances, if she couldn't get clean for her DCs, she won't get clean for you or the others paying her rent.

You can't help everybody, put that money towards your DCs futures or for something for yourself.

I wonder if you could find another way to support her - tell her that you will help her if she gets out and stays clean.

I really feel for you OP it's such a horrible dilemma.

As a wider point - it's ludicrous we expect prisoners to come out to no money and no homes - there should be safe housing for all women coming out of prison with support looking for next steps. A pipe dream in our broken society - but as you have said, your sister is a victim of addiction - some of the comments here are nasty. Ultimately - addiction is a disease.

You sound very caring and I hope you can let go of any guilt you feel.

When I had a family member with a drug addiction, I turned to www.famanon.org.uk
Its a 12 step programme for families/friends when they suspect a loved one has a drug problem. They have a helpline, literature, UK wide meetings etc.
What helped my family member to seek recovery, was to stop enabling, tough love and set boundaries. Addicts are masters at manipulation.

Is there an organisation near you like Families Outside that can help with advice? It sounds like it will be helpful to go through the process with someone familiar with your area and local prison.

Your sister's housing association may be able to signpost you to a specialist organisation.

Also, the plan to keep hold of the flat while your sister is in prison might not wash with the HA anyway, which is another reason to speak to them.

Your sister can put something in writing saying she's happy for you to act on her behalf.

Generally speaking family links, work and housing help reduce the likelihood of reoffending but that doesnt mean she'll be able to hold onto the flat.

Prison social work will help her find a place when she leaves but it may be a hostel.

Its quite a short time inside, but it'd also help to find out if there are any qualifications or skills your sister can learn inside to help her get a job when she's back out.

Sometimes you have to accept that you can’t help someone however sad that it is. And part of that is no longer meaning yourself responsible for any aspect of their life.

Thank you all so much for being supportive, I feel like I have resources I can explore for support and advice.

I appreciate the understanding and support, even the realism.

This. You already know exactly how this will end.