To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?

[FuadaFan]

Now it is a drama about how the Israeli security services deal with the conflict but it is apparently pretty accurate and is amazingly well produced and acted.

Season 5, which covers Oct 7th has just come out after a long delay.

I've had to take a break after episode 7 because it's so distressing but it still doesn't even come close to what happened that day.

I think it's gives a clearer idea as to the truth of what has been going on and it does try to give a perspective from both sides.

I think every pro-Palestinian should watch it.

AIBU?

genuine question: is the Israel/Hamas war the first war posters have ever heard of? Starving the populations (not that this is happening here) is a very common tactic of war. We did it to Germany. It happened to Syrians. And did you not realise that civilian casualties are an inevitability of war? Last o checked I think the ratio was 9:1 civilians to combatants in any given war.

Were we wrong to kill German children in WW2?

"It doesn't say what I want so it must be Hasbara propaganda!"

“If you don’t agree with ethnic cleansing you must want Gazans “to live under the thumb of the brutal theocratic dictatorship that is Hamas which grooms their children to be terrorists from the cradle and uses them as human shields”” you mean?

Not my ideal outcome but better than being ethnically cleansed. And do stop pretending you care about the outcome for the Palestinian people. You’ve made clear you’d be quite happy if they are destroyed.

Saudi's War in Yemen involved a blockade and mass starvation too. At one point 85,000 Starving kids in Yemen: more than the entire number of civilian casualties in Gaza.

peddles antisemitic tropes, even if they don’t realise it

Do you mean criticises Israel for things you don’t think Jews should be criticised for?

See there you go again with the emotional blackmail. "You are a bad person who wants children to die if you don't agree with me!"

Do you actually have any arguments @FeeFiFoFiddlyFum or just rage and tantrums? I don't want Gazas to be "ethnically cleansed" or living under Hamas boot. I actually believe they deserve better- and so do many Israelis.

No, I mean antisemitic tropes. The very kind of tropes that Goebbels peddled 90 years ago. The man was a psycho but very good at his job. He turned people against Jews through lies, ancient harmful stereotypes and hateful language. i could go back even further, thousands of years in fact to every instance where Jews have been hated, ostracised, kicked out their countries and mass murdered. It’s the same now, but it’s happening in our phones.

The amount of blood libel peddling by so-called pro-Pals, high profile ones too, is alarming. As well as blaming for major world disasters. How embarrassing that so many people haven’t learned from history or even thought of being hateful on an original way

But since you’ve asked - what do you think “Jews should be criticised for”?

The whole Doe-eyed “Oh I’m only criticising the Israeli government”

Sorry, yes, you clearly do, as you think it’s illegitimate for people to criticise the Israeli government at all. I haven’t seen a pro-Israel
poster claim that it is unacceptable to criticise the Israeli governments quite so bluntly on MN before. Interesting times.

Yes, I seem to recall telling you: just because a child is injured in Gaza it doesn't automatically mean it was the Joos what did it. Hamas do, occasionally, admit misfiring rockets kill their own people. They're also known to carry out the odd execution.

Oh do dispense with the dramatics af making things up. You’re not 5, grow up.

im saying pro-pals VERY rarely “just” criticise the Israeli government. In every instance ive seen they use, even in its smallest measure, antisemitic language.

Do you even care to hear how you can criticise the Israeli government and NOT be antisemitic?

We do know what happened. And we know that October 7th is one terrible incident in a much longer history of terrible things. Where Israel has done and continues to do terrible things.

Yet many international organisations believe there is a genocide. See my previous posts (but remember to ignore the one organisation you took exception to, just read the others).

Not sure if the patronising tone is adding anything to the thread or really necessary.

Oh yeah just ONE “terrible” incident where 1,200 Jews died including children and babies, and women were raped and people kept hostage for years. Just a little blip. Israel should just have shrugged and said “never mind these things happen”

On the definitely-not-against Israel UN where a senior leader called rape victims liars?

how compelling.

Tell me, what do you think makes it a genocide and not a war? Like every other war fought before and since?

No. But I am saying your consistent alignment with groups and individuals who have openly expressed a desire to exterminate all Jews, as well as your regular recourse to historical anti-Jewish tropes is suspicious.

And before you say "don't equate Israel with Jews!" because you will, inevitably roll out that tired old talking point, the demographic data is clear. Half the world's Jews live in Israel: its population is 73% Jewish- making it the only Jewish - majority state on earth.
Many of Jews outside the country are emotionally attached to or supportive of it

Oh you get the odd antizionist Jew, sure but using them as tokens doesn't absolve Pro-Palestinian types of their attitudes.

In fact, look up Max Nauman sometime. He was an antizionist nationalist Jew the Nazis used as as propaganda tool in the 1930s to hide their own antisemitism.

Yes, you’re right, I’ve never heard of a war before and my understanding is that no-one else who believes that what Israel is doing have ever heard of a war, read a book, opened a newspaper, listened to the radio, learnt history, travelled, demonstrated against a war, or cared about people in a warzone. Only Israel and the Palestinians. You are very perceptive.

Is that when "believe all women" suddenly stopped applying?

No, no you don't understand! October 7th was an accident. They were never intending to do any of those things! I just kind of ... happened! Thousands of people slipped on a trigger or detonator at the same time. Those men just tripped on a banana skin and happened to fall on top of the women...

Do stop the personal insults. It’s not an impressive way of arguing, I know what you’re trying to do, and it won’t work.

If you don’t want the Palestinians to be ethnically cleansed perhaps not complaining that they can’t all just leave might make that clearer.

The thing is I HAVE heard of a war before. When you look at what other countries for example do to their own populations, and others (examples already mentioned on this thread), it’s absolutely horrifying - but then there’s never criticism of those countries. There are atrocities happening right now in greater numbers to non-terrorist states, and there’s radio silence across the world. The Uyghurs in China is particularly horrific. Yet I fail to see the boycott of Chinese goods. My Chinese friends aren’t being demanded for their opinions on it like my Jewish friends are of Israel.

Bit odd, no?

Let’s look closer to home - what we did in Iraq. Genuinely illegal to a country that posed zero threat. Nobody demands or demanded to boycott the U.K.

176,000 Afghan civilians died after the result of 9/11 - in which just 3,000 people died. Nobody called it a genocide. Why not?

think hard - why is Israel held to such an insanely different standard?

Many of us know exactly why, everyone else is either in denial or being obtuse.

No wait wasn’t it Mossad. Those pesky Jews have always brought it on themselves.

I don’t have special rules for Jews. I think we should be able to criticise anyone if we disagree with their actions, whether they are Jewish or anyone else.

Apparently.

ahe was even confronted at an inquest by a former hostage who was raped by Hamas. She’s asked the IN leader to look at her when she spoke about what happened to her. The UN leader refused

But you’ve used “Jews” as a collective term. You didn’t says Israeli’s, you said jews. So who or what exactly did you mean??

Or was it a Freudian slip?

This is another problem pro-pals have - collectively blaming Jews or equating Israel to “Jews”