To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?

[FuadaFan]

Now it is a drama about how the Israeli security services deal with the conflict but it is apparently pretty accurate and is amazingly well produced and acted.

Season 5, which covers Oct 7th has just come out after a long delay.

I've had to take a break after episode 7 because it's so distressing but it still doesn't even come close to what happened that day.

I think it's gives a clearer idea as to the truth of what has been going on and it does try to give a perspective from both sides.

I think every pro-Palestinian should watch it.

AIBU?

IOF ? You mentioned propaganda?

I’m unclear what your explanation is for starting this thread is if you don’t believe that Fauda series 5 presents happenings in a way which will increase sympathy for the Israeli side of this conflict?

Do you think that most “pro Pals” are unaware of the horrors of October 7?

You did indeed read that correctly. An O.

I’ve read OPs posts. If OPs posts had suggested someone open to other views or information about the subject, who responded constructively to discussion from people with different perspectives, rather than trying to shut down anyone who disagrees with her, I might feel differently.

But they don’t, so I don’t.

Of course not. Anti semitism is real and Jews have been horribly persecuted throughout history for centuries. I don't even think (and I assume most people who criticise the current Israeli government don't think) that Israel shouldn't exist or doesn't have the right to defend itself.

I just don't think that you can justify the response of the Israeli government to Oct 7. I don't think you can justify genocide. I don't think you can justify the killing, maiming, displacing and utter terrorising of Palestinians that they have unleashed on them in the last 3 years. I don't think you can support the suffering they have inflicted on children. I don't think you can justify their current actions.

For me these are not atrocities carried out by Jews. They are atrocities carried out by netanyahu and his government. Of course there are people trying to whip up anti semitic sentiments by conflating the two but why are you doing the same? This is not a rhetoric question. I really want to know the answer. Are you actually saying that the Israeli government should be immune to scrutiny or criticism? Would you say that about any other government in the world?

By the way Op, DH has watched every season of Fauda and thinks it's brilliant. He doesn't support Netanyahu and his government. I genuinely don't understand how anyone can still support them.

Its also been established all 5 of the Palestinian "journalists" interviewed for the film were Hamas members. Here's one who was evidently very close to Yahya Sinwar.

An American or British filmmaker who interviewed a member of a terrorist organisation which had killed American citizens and presented what they said in a favourable light might also be dubbed a traitor.

I think that you need to learn/begin to separate the two things. People are allowed to openly discuss, and even criticise, the Israeli government without it automatically meaning someone is being antisemitic. That has been thrown around so much that it has almost belittled the actual word. It should not be belittled and it is never acceptable behaviour. However, people being falsely accused repeatedly of antisemitic behaviour when it is crystal clear they have not been, is not helpful. It then automatically makes some question why there seems to be almost a demented attempt to shut any discussions/criticism down the way it has been repeatedly.

The post I was replying to said that claims Israel killed its own citizens due to the “Hannibal Derective” (in inverted comments implying it’s some sort of made up notion) are a horrible claim.

Or they come out with that horrible “Hannibal Derective” claim, insinuating Israel killed its own citizens on October 7th.

whereas you are confirming you believe it to be true.

If anyone is claiming that all the deaths were due to the Hannibal Directive (I haven’t seen this myself but I’ll take your word for it) then this could be called a horrible claim, but implying there is something wrong with discussing the HD and that no Israelis were killed as a result of it needs to be challenged.

Yes, like that lovely BBC documentary about children in Gaza, where the narrator and main character turned out to be the son of Ayman al Yazouri, the deputy minister of agriculture in the Hamas-run government.

Your argument is a prime example of the strawman fallacy: i.e misrepsetenting or distorting your opponents position to make it easier to attack.
I never said criticism of the Israeli government was antisemitic. I never conflated them with all Jews.

I simply pointed out a very real phenomenon whereby every attack on Jews is followed inevitably by people saying "Israel made them do it". I also pointed out there are people who will use events in the Middle East to justify attacks on both Jews and Israelis.

The fact you felt personally targeted by this says a lot.

Exactly. Hamas (and other lovely Gazans) literally filmed themselves killing Israelis, yet people will still wheel out the Hannibal Directive as some sort of gotcha.

Just to be clear - where are they occupying?

On the contrary, many people hold that Israel has no right to exist. Its currently also fashionable to dub all Israelis as "terrorists" and ban tourists from visiting certain places.

Its also observable that upsurges in antisemitism follow almost any escalation in the conflict.
I'm not suggesting that criticising the Israeli government isn't legitimate (in fact many Israelis dislike the current regime), but I am saying there's a lot more toxicity around than you think.

Well, that’s your prerogative.
But as I said, I’ve seen plenty of posters on here with completely one-sided views on the Israel-Gaza conflict, and yet if one of them recommended ‘The Voice of Hind Rajab’ I wouldn’t automatically assume it’s propaganda.

Do you know why the Hannibal Directive exists? I'll enlighten you. Its because Hezbollah and Hamas had a habit of torturing captured Israeli soldiers to death and then making Israel agree to absurdly unequal "Prisoner exchanges". Such as releasing 100 terrorists in exchange for one Soldier's body. It got to a point where vicious murderers were being released.

Nobody brings up the HD as a good faith criticism: its always used to peddle conspiracy theories about Israel killing its own hostages.

I think people need to read up on history and the conflict from both sides

its so rare to get a completely unbiased narrative but what you do learn is there is a lot of fear, hurt and anger on both sides and this is why Hamas came into power and a right wing government for Israel came into power

and with recent history it is sadly likely both groups will remain popular enough to keep supporters feeling the way forward is with aggression

I was talking specifically about October 7th and about how some people use the Hannibal Directive as a blanket explanation to what happened on that day.
I’ve seen that being done on social media more than once.
Over 1200 people were killed that day, and if someone responds to this with ‘hmmm, the Hannibal Directive in action’, it is of course total nonsense and a horrible (and wildly inaccurate) claim.

It’s not the one sided views. Almost everyone strongly supports one side or the other. That shouldn’t preclude rational, respectful discussion.

OP has not imho engaged in respectful discussion. They have accused people they disagree with of supporting Hamas atrocities when there is no suggestion this is the case. They believe Haaretz should be dismissed as a source of information and ridicule pp linking Haaretz articles.

So forgive me if I don’t approach recommendations for viewing from OP with an open mind.

Did you watch ‘The Voice of Hind Rajab’ and if you did, did you think it was propaganda once you’d watched it?

They're not unaware no. They just minimise, deny or justify what happened that day.

Of course there is but I haven't seen any on this thread so why bring up antisemitism unless it is to stop the criticism of netanyahu and his government?

Those prisoner exchanges between Israel and the Palestinians are really something else.
Even Russia releases equal numbers of Ukranian POW as vice versa in their exchanges, yet when it comes to Israelis versus Palestinians the proportions are wildly asymmetrical.

Haaretz is known to be an extreme left-wing newspaper. Its not and has never been objective. People noting this is isn't bias- its pointing out the bias of the source.

Again, I’ve seen exactly the same behaviour on the other side, still wouldn’t brush off everything someone says as propaganda.

What precisely are they "occupying?" The West Bank, which was ethnically cleansed of its ancient Jewish population by the Jordanian government between 1948-1967? Gaza? Not an occupation as they have no intention to permanently remain there.

Do you know why the Hannibal Directive exists? I'll enlighten you.

Yes, I know why but that’s not stopped you “explaining” anything yet so why would it this time?

Something is not a conspiracy theory if it has happened.

And just to be clear, I didn’t bring up the Hannibal Directive. I responded to a post claiming it was not used on October 7 and suggesting that no Israelis were killed in its use, which you yourself have agreed is untrue.