To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?

[FuadaFan]

Now it is a drama about how the Israeli security services deal with the conflict but it is apparently pretty accurate and is amazingly well produced and acted.

Season 5, which covers Oct 7th has just come out after a long delay.

I've had to take a break after episode 7 because it's so distressing but it still doesn't even come close to what happened that day.

I think it's gives a clearer idea as to the truth of what has been going on and it does try to give a perspective from both sides.

I think every pro-Palestinian should watch it.

AIBU?

Interesting article here from the Times of Israel about dealings between Israel and Qatar and Hamas.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

"Embedded in civilian infrastructure" doesn't mean "surrounded by civilian infrastructure". It means utilising civilian infrastructure for military purposes.

Nice try though.

Whataboutism. All governments have dealings with terrorist groups including the US government.

Here's an article detailing how Al-Qaeda was basically created by the CIA

digitalcommons.buffalostate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1050&context=history_theses

Even if it were true (its not) but let's say for argument's sake it is- no solider is going to be that stupid as to film themselves and post it on social media. How do we even know these are IDF soldiers and not say... Palestinians in stolen uniforms? Is happened before.

Claiming that no IDF soldiers would post a video of themselves committing atrocities online and that any and all of them are fake is preposterous, and a bit desperate tbh.

People can read the article and decide if it’s whataboutism or relevant. I posted it for information, I don’t think people need your stamp of approval on every contribution to the thread.

Are you on Instagram? Go and look at rosieplasticsurgeon for first hand experience.

And please don’t come back here and tell us that Dr Rosie is Hamas dressed up as a British doctor.

"Food insecurity" and malnutrition aren't the same thing. That article is listing "food insecurity".

Here's an article listing high rates of obesity in Gaza pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10391640/

But let's look at some "malnourished" Gazans...

The UN also believes Israel is committing genocide so it’s slight odd that you would invoke their views.

I’m sure everyone on this thread agrees that war crimes were committed by Hamas on October 7 but then most of us also believe the UN is telling the truth about Israel’s actions.

Are you considering the UN a credible organisation or not? Or only when they don’t condemn Israel’s actions?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/11/un-special-committee-finds-israels-warfare-methods-gaza-consistent-genocide

An injured child doesn't automatically follow "the Israelis are responsible". Even Hamas occasionally admit they kill and injure their own people with misfiring rockets etc.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2005/8/2/palestinians-misfire-rockets-killing-boy

Ha why would I want to watch blatant propaganda? No thank you. It is rather odd timing, in all honesty.

Did he actually go to any of those places? You're still relying on the "appeal to authority" fallacy. A person can have all the qualifications in the world, but if they haven't acually witnessed the events they're referring to they don't have any basis to comment on them.

Yet here you are commenting about events you haven’t witnessed. As are we all. We all look at evidence which is presented and by various methods decide what we believe to be credible and what not.

Or for some people, reject or pretend to reject anything which doesn’t suit our position.

Much is dependent on context: did this special committee actually visit Gaza and gather evidence or is everything they said based on third hand accounts?

See that other UN report actually had credible evidence. Does this one?

Its notable: this man is starving. He's not Gazan. He's an Israeli hostage called Evtayar David.

The first ones on the list, the Association of Genocide Scholars, have given themselves such an important sounding name, yet according to their own website it’s simply a group of researchers, activists, legal experts, students, and artists.
Anyone can join for a fee, no academic credentials, background checks or degrees required.
Yet of course they get constantly wheeled out as “experts”.

He provided no evidence. Literally just said "I have seen X" without any proof. I always try to provide credible evidence to back up my position. Therein lies the difference.

Any scholar or activist can say anything, it doesn't make them credible. They rely on the title of "scholar" to carry weight.

. Which is why I am wary of the so called "genocide scholars" and emphasise only the ICC are actually qualified to determine on this mater.

Your argument is based on emotion: "You are a bad person if you don't believe this claim I make that has no evidence"

This is weak tbh. I really can’t be bothered expanding, I just wanted to point out what a weak attempt at an argument it is.

and the other organisations?

Its not about my approval: its the allegation Israel "created" Hamas by funding Qatar. I am highlighting your absurd double standard here. By your logic, the USA was responsible for 9/11 because the CIA trained Al-Qaeda fighters in the 1980s.

Quoting the UN as a credible source again.

interesting

I haven't claimed they are "all fake". I've looked at the videos and the vast majority are literally just out of context images of explosions. An explosion during a war is no prima facie evidence of atrocities.

The only social media accounts where we actually find evidence of atrocities are those of Palestinians: including, utilising child soldiers, rape and killing of civilians, torture and starvation of prisoners.

No it’s not easily countered just because you say it is.

Anyone, anyone can have an opinion on whether actions constitute genocide. If credible organisations (and you yourself keep quoting the UN to back up specific assertions) state a particular opinion, reasonable people will take note of that opinion.

Saying “only a legal case by the ICC can determine genocide so it’s irrelevant what any organisation believes “ is ridiculous frankly.

Why are you even on this thread arguing if you don’t think anyone’s views but the ICC are relevant?

Clarify what you mean by "the state". The government? FIne. The government and the IDF. They have conscription: every Israeli citizen over 18 is required to serve. So you are vilifying every adult Israeli.

You missed something in your list.

There is no justification for terrorist attacks on festival goers or families living in Kibbutz or people at all.

There is no justification for taking hostages and holding them cruelty slowly releasing as they see fit.

People like OP are the reason why this conflict will never end. They cant see that two things can be true at the same time. Hamas can be horrific violent terrorists while Israel can also be committing war crimes and killing kids

There are people like this on both sides of the conflict.

I do not support one side or the other, both are committing atrocities both are doing awful things and neither has the moral high ground.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation, October 7th was truly awful and a dark day for humanity, what those people did is unthinkable to most and disgusting. It deserved a response.

However I do not feel that the response it deserved was the killing of 75,000 people including over 20,000 children.

I fully support Israel in their right to self defence, self defence does not mean murdering children.

This is how you prolong a conflict.

If your child was murdered in an israeli air strike, your whole life was in rubble what would you do? A hell of a lot of people would decide fuck it lets get revenge and kill some israelis.

If you were a child and your parents were both killed would you grow up hating israel? of course you would.

We need to break the cycle of violence from both sides, show restraint and create generations who do not hate each other for murdering family.

The ICC don't "express an opinion"- they are a legal institution uniquely qualified to determine guilt or innocence in these matters.

Your argument is like saying popular opinion can convict a person of a crime. It is the epitome of "you are guilty because I say so". You are, in essence advocating for Trial by Media.