To think that "difficult" people are life's winners?

[MargoLivebetter]

I realise that "difficult" is a bit vague, so what I mean here is people who are demanding, domineering, strongly opinionated, lack self-awareness, self-serving, uncompromising, combabitive, say it as it is etc ......

To think that all those qualities stand you in better stead than being considerate, kind, self-aware, able to compromise, polite, reflective, tolerant etc.

I just can't see how unless I move to a Buddhist community the later serves me well!

Being passive when there is conflict definitely is a risky strategy. Kids should not be taught to never assert themselves. Sometimes the most passive kids are the most popular in a class, though, because they are so amenable.

I have known bossy domineering people who repeatedly alienate & annoy everyone else and cause constant disruption in their own lives and generally keep losing friends and never accrue good things in their lives.

I do agree definitely in a family dynamic. The awkward moody ones get what they want. Not letting this happen is the hard part.
Even on here many times we see the man controls the mood of the family or even a difficult child.

I think those type of people are winners short term. They’re also the type to die alone and unloved because people eventually have enough of their shit

Generally, yes, but its a huge risk.

How you treat people on the way up will be beamed back in how they treat you on the way down.
These sort of people rarely make friends on their way up to "the win" so if/when they come a cropper, they'll find support, friends and allies falling away.

They don't tend to assume this downfall will ever happen to them. And, to be fair, it is rare. But not unheard of.

There's definite value in being assertive when needed but that has to be balanced against the times when compromise is the best choice.

In my experience the people who are really combative and self-serving tend to be the kind of people who are never satisfied or happy. They externalise their unhappiness by spreading it around to others in an effort to find blame. Never finding peace and contentment doesn't sound like winning to me but I accept that other people have different yardsticks.

One person's moods affecting the whole family is most definitely not just a male trait, as a glance at the Stately Homes threads would attest.

I don’t think it’s necessarily “difficult” people, just those who go after what they want in life. It shouldn’t be a surprise that passive people are likely to achieve less?

That’s not to say that being a go-getter is the only path to happiness.

I think successful people can be all of those traits you’ve listed, the truly successful ones know in what circumstances to use which traits. For example, I’m pretty easy going a lot of the time but when it really matters I can and will use any and all of the “difficult” traits you’ve listed.

Depends on the situations.

Things can collapse for them - at often middle or older ages when they meet someone esle difficult or immovable or everyone had enough - but also things can work for them because no-one wants to go against them and some sail through life with that always being the case.

To think that all those qualities stand you in better stead than being considerate, kind, self-aware, able to compromise, polite, reflective, tolerant

Many people who do well in life do have those qulaities but also often more and that doesn't preclude having line/boundaries and backbones.

Having said that next time we move house - I've said we'll be the difficult ones as frankly being flexibale and considerate just got us messed around twice and with no dependent kids next time we'll be under less pressure round schools and timings. We'll not be delibeartely diffcult but do what best for us even if that inconveniences others as everyone else seems to.

The squeaky wheel gets the oil isn’t that what they say

I think part of the reason my mum has lived to a ripe old age is because she has always dumped her problems on everyone else eg. Was using me as a therapist when I was 6 years old. Bullied me and my dad, which presumably she enjoyed or she wouldn't have done it. Slept with other men when she felt like it. Kicked up a stink if everything isn't perfect.

No one else's mental health matters other than her own. We've always been expected to be strong. I think she's done very well out of it. She's basically an oversized Veruca Salt.

In the short term it gets you what you want but can come at a cost of long term poor relationships, if you care about that.

I get the point you are all trying to make, that people appease difficult people for a quiet life, but I am struggling to think of a difficult person who is genuinely happy. They are usually fucking miserable, even when everyone bends to their will. So no, I wouldn’t describe them as life’s winners.

I think lots of people with those traits don’t do well in life. They often end up bitter and alone.

To succeed they need combine their difficult side with a charming side… I don’t know anyone who’s been successful who is unremittingly difficult all the time! To succeed the ‘difficult’ person always have enough positive qualities to attract people, at least for a while.

Does it though? I see plenty of people with the qualities I've listed as difficult, who have very successful long-term relationships.

No, I'm one of them and it's just made me disliked and mistrusted. Same as my mum.
Probably OK for men though!!

No, I can confirm it’s definitely not just a male trait!

There’s a range of things within being difficult. It can mean standing up for yourself and not compromising for what you deserve (will still annoy some people) on the one end, and being selfish and outright rude on the other end.

I can see that this type of people can get seen and heard more, so they get their ways more especially in one-off situations. They make noises and most people avoid conflicts and follow the path of least resistance. Long-term relationships are different matters, personally and professionally.

But you're assuming they're "successful" only from what you see from the outside.

How do you define "success" in a relationship?
Is their partner happy?
What has/does their partner sacrifice/d to make the relationship "successful"?
You can't know this stuff.

It may look like a "successful" relationship now, but who knows the future.

@Limth you are right, I can't know this stuff. I can only observe what I see from the outside. I guess it looks more "successful" than a divorce!

No, they don't stand you in better stead.

Being considerate, kind, self-aware, able to compromise, polite, reflective, tolerant is always better.

But you can be all of those things and still have very firm boundaries.

This is what (looking around on MN) a lot of people are missing.

And of course to remember that normal adult conversation is NOT 'confrontation'.

Unfortunately yes I think a lot of the pushy assholes in life get more, the complainers who get people in trouble when they don’t always need to, people above say well they end up without good relationships but I honestly think they don’t care about people so that suits them

In individual ‘battles’ often yes. But they end up isolated and alone. People may be polite to them (out of fear!) but people don’t stay close.

@SandwichSuperstar better in what way though?

It depends how you define “winning”. Yes they may be successful in the sense of career or getting what they want all the time, but they likely don’t have as a much respect or as many friends !
For example: If they left a workplace for a new role would people be glad they left, or genuinely miss them?

I work / have worked with people like this and I know which person I’d rather be.
You can appear to have all the markers of “success” like a good job, promotions and a nice house, but plenty of people can think you’re a bit of a dick & avoid spending any time with you unless they have to.