to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

[Pinkshocks]

If he is already getting everything on a plate, a committed partner, a sexual relationship, children, someone to split the bills with, emotional support and a family life, all without making any legal or lifelong commitment, why would he change anything?

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men. Some people genuinely do not want to marry and both are happy with that. But if one person wants marriage and the other keeps putting it off year after year, are they really going to change when they are already getting everything they want?

Why would someone buy the ticket when they are already getting the whole show for free?

Because marriage is a commitment even if some people do not honour it.

Saying some husbands are not does not change that. People break promises all the time but the promise was still made.

Sorry you are in this situation. It is quite common though unfortunately. Some men get everything without marriage so there is no reason for them to marry.

Are you actually trapped? Are you financially dependent on him?

Men have the advantage in general of not being on the clock as much as women. So if for example youre late 20s or early 30s giving up on a long term relationship is , as they might see it, a real risk, there's less available men , less chance of meeting someone else, then getting married and having kids within the next 10 years.

I think this is one of the most depressing threads I've ever read. It's as if I've woken up in the 1950s. The outdated stereotypes are coming thick and fast.

In my opinion, marriage is less about love and more of a legal business contract. You are entering into the business of being a family unit and planning to raise your children in it. You have the right to make joint decisions and the hard decisions at the end too. These things are important, if your boyfriend was in a vegetable in a coma, you’d have no say, unlike if your husband was.
You need to be on the same page and willing to totally throw your lot in with each other, otherwise there’s no point.
Some men won’t get married, even though they got their partner pregnant because they secretly think they can do better. If neither of you want to tie the knot then fine but don’t settle for someone who doesn’t value you.

I had DC 16 years after I got married. I didn't get married to have children, I got married to commit to the person I love. The possibility of children might be something to discuss with a life partner but making the commitment through marriage came long before we wanted to try for kids.

Obviously, not everyone can stick to their plan but - for me - formal commitment is part of a joined up approach to life. The wedding expenses and flashy honeymoon are of no consequence. Not even the dress, and I was in the fashion industry at the time

Maybe the problem is that you think doing any of those things is "giving" anything away?

Every time I've been intimate, lived with a partner or sexted a man, it was because I wanted to. It gave me pleasure and benefited me. I wasn't giving away anything, I wasn't sacrificing anything for his pleasure. I have no idea why a woman would do any of those things if she didn't want to.

Whether one wants to marry or not has sod all to do with love, or commitment, or sexist bollocks like getting the milk for free. It's a social convention with legal benefits that appeals to some (men and women) but not to others (men and women). It didn't appeal to me for a very long time.

The important thing is to be on the same page as your partner but it never ceases to amaze me how many people don't bother to even check for compatibility before marrying someone.

Thanks x

I don’t blame anyone but myself. He never spoke positively about marriage other than to tell me a 40+ yr old colleague had recently got married and he thought it was wonderful as it was a celebration of their relationship etc… I was only 20s thinking WTAF? Marriage is something that celebrates the beginning of your journey together etc. I had no idea what reality would end up being and the bloody irony.

It’s affected our relationship in that I would still like to be married and every time I bring it up it pisses him off and we argue. He’s the main earner and has put a lot into our house etc and there’s always stuff that needs doing, so in that sense a wedding isn’t a priority, but as I said, I’ve never wanted anything big - a small registry thing would have been fine. He knows this but is in denial and always brings it round to the cost. I’m not saying he’s not committed to me - we’ve been through more than most couples together, but he definitely doesn’t see it as a priority despite knowing it’s important to me. If we didn’t have kids I’d have probably left him, but then again if we hadn’t had kids we’d have probably got married years ago. And been happy.

It isnt really. Not unless he has quite a bit of money and doesn't want to lose it. That's the only way marriage gives you some sort of hold over him to guarantee he performs commitment.

I've seen loads of these scenarios.
Then hey-ho, suddenly the woman's pregnant and there's a rush up the aisle before the bump shows too much.
If the woman is coming up to 30 and feels her fertility window is closing, she'll resort to sneaky tactics like this.

I'm not sure that performing the 'proposal' isn't the gold standard women are wanting these days. Living together, having children are seen as a way to get the 'proposal'. Then they are sad that the 'proposal' is never performed.
These are usually the women who remain unmarried because they 'can't afford' to get married. No, you can't afford the extravaganza you think is 'getting married' 🤷‍♀️
Anyway, I tend to believe that each party should WANT to make sure the person they love is protected and supported and if not, something IS lacking? If women aren't considering how to protect themselves BEFORE giving everything to the relationship, including children and career, why would the man? And, if he doesn't, how can you complain about it later?
Having children, living together without legal protections in place, whether it be marriage or otherwise, is not the love story "you" believe it to be.

I don’t see the point in marriage. Do it if you want to, but it doesn’t mean you are more or less in love because of it, it doesn’t stop cheaters cheating, or abusive people from being abusive.
The idea of standing in front a room of people and everyone looking at me makes me want to crawl up my own arse and die. I did marry my kids dad but i would only agree to it if we did it was small and without fuss as possible. We went to the registry office with a couple of mates and did it and then went home. he wanted to, i wouldn’t have bothered but Indis it for him.

This ^

Women post regularly on MN upset about their partners who won’t marry them after having children with them. What’s outdated about it? Someone in this position just posted a few minutes ago about how her partner won’t marry her. 1950s? More like 2026.

Marriage was never about stopping people cheating or being abusive. Plenty of people cohabiting also cheat and are abusive.

Some of the stereotypes on this thread:

Women who aren't married are "giving it away".
Women want kids, men want sex.
Women want weddings and marriage, men want sex.
Women want big proposals with lots of money spent on them.
Women want big weddings with lots of money spent on them
Women want to "trap" men because they're scared their "fertility window" will close.
Women's value and ability to be truly loved lies in being chosen and proposed to by and married to a man.
Men get to do the proposing, women wait passively to be asked.
A woman's father has some say in her getting married.
There is a "right" way to do things and this involves being married to a man before having children.
Women can be bought, like tickets to a show.

Which of these do you think belongs in the 21st century?

There are so many threads on mumsnet about women as partners who have become sahms , no job outside of the relationship , no pension, their name isnt on the mortgage , and their relationship is now on the rocks . If that isnt a trad 'wife' situation ( without any legal protections of being an actual wife) i dont know what is. They have relinquished every piece of power they may have had in this relationship, while waiting for 'the man' to tell them he will marry them. Hello 1950s.

Its all very well being unmarried and having children but dont give up your job, and get somewhere together with both names on the mortgage.

Correct. Marriage was about passing ownership of a woman from her husband to her father. Until relatively recently married women had no identity in law. Look up coverture if you like.

Over years, feelings can change. Maybe he doesnt see their relationship having the longevity that it once had so getting more entangled would be a bad move. If they had got married all those years ago, they'd still be in this same position, he'd just be thinking about whether things will improve or about the best time for divorce

If that is going to happen, it will happen within or without marriage. It's not about a wedding certificate. It's about basic respect vs old fashioned misogyny.

@ClarkeandNewman Women want to "trap" men because they're scared their "fertility window" will close.

That's not a stereotype, that's real. ^
I have seen it so many times. Women dating for up to 7 years with no proposal then suddenly they're pregnant.
Often, it's a single woman having an affair with a married man who needs to force his hand.
I work in a female-orientated industry and I can tell you it's very common.

Absolutely but with a marriage there are legal protections allowing equity and finances that have been acquired throughout the marriage.. Without the marriage some women are left high and dry financially in their 40s with little prospects.

Sexist crap.

That requires the man to have equity and finances. Most people, especially right now, do not have anything to share. You just kind of walk away with what you brought in which wa 2 x nothing.

I don't care if you believe it or not but it's there.