to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

[Pinkshocks]

If he is already getting everything on a plate, a committed partner, a sexual relationship, children, someone to split the bills with, emotional support and a family life, all without making any legal or lifelong commitment, why would he change anything?

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men. Some people genuinely do not want to marry and both are happy with that. But if one person wants marriage and the other keeps putting it off year after year, are they really going to change when they are already getting everything they want?

Why would someone buy the ticket when they are already getting the whole show for free?

Does this only work one way round? If a woman loves a man then will she want him to have those protections as well?

Sometimes reading MN is like stepping back into a time when women had no earning power at all.

FWIW DH and I married because of those reasons. It didn't prove we loved each other - we'd been together over a decade at that point and had actually agreed that neither of us really believed in marriage. But we both have difficult families and there were some legal protections we both wanted for each other. We could have done that legal admin without getting married but realised that a wedding could involve a fun party (without the difficult families) as well.

I agree with this.
Let's face it, the legal protections brigade are not thinking of the relationship when marrying, they're thinking of the Divorce.

No flipping reason you can't share everything when cohabiting!

So they're entering into something with the fact it might fail from the OUTSET

What's that expression you got a plan B, then you won't work at plan A.

DISCLAIMER: Obviously people should be allowed to divorce.

People who see marriage as not important are going to be in for a shock when they split. There's no obligation to them anymore. I recently divorced and would have been screwed financially if not for that very crucial piece of paper.

Men will absolutely have kids with someone they don't want to marry as they see walking away from kids a lot easier than divorce as then the wife wants all his money 🙄.

I loved with my boyfriend before marriage but no way would I have had a child without being married.

Prenups are not legal in the UK. Once you're married pretty much everything belongs to you both.

Do you think the people saying this have never split up with someone?

Depends what the woman wants. You’re saying this as if every woman wants to get married, some genuinely aren’t arsed and some think it’s patriarchal.

Doesn’t love enough imo

its very important to dh i am taken care of if he does and everything is as seamless as possible for me..

Gpu are not wrong but you might get flamed for it.

It's always "he won't marry yet because we cannot afford the big white wedding he wants and he is very traditional..."

But they already have three kids together... yeah very traditional 😂

I don’t have children so that probably influences my decision but I’m not bothered about getting married to be honest. If I did, it would be a quick register office affair, with a pre nup.

Yes my dp has been getting the whole show for free for > 25 years.
Having seen 3 of my friends lose out in their divorce ( they were all the higher earner, as am I ), you'd have to drag me kicking and screaming down the aisle.

I'd be reasonable in the event of a separation, we are family and I wouldn't see dp struggle but I wouldn't want a judge in control.

IMO men only want what suits them.

Many say they are 'traditional' men i.e they thinkwomen should be SAHM and cook/clean/shop etc, but they ALSO want them to share finances 50/50.

Yet these so called 'traditional' men also insist that their children MUST have their surname, yet they aren't willing to give their partner their surname by marrying them.

They always insist on 'protecting' their money by refusing to have their partners on the mortgage/house deeds/rental agreement, simply so they have the 'power' to kick their partners out, should they choose to do so in the future.

Basically, they want ALL the benefits of marriage, but without any financial risk. They excuse this, whenever asked, by saying they are 'traditional' however their 'traditionality' doesn't extend to an actual marriage...IMO they're only half hearted or evasive when the set up doesn't benefit THEM.

Agree.
And marriage isn't the bullet-proof protection it's always made out to be on MN. Try getting a divorce when you've been a SAHM for years having done things "the right way" as described by previous posters - you're pretty much fucked. The focus shouldn't be on marriage, it should be on financial independence of both partners.

It took me far too long to realise that men benefit so much from relationships and are built to enjoy sex regardless of attraction, therefore many MANY men will be in a relationship with a woman they barely like, let alone love.

Your underlying assumption is that marriage is something men do to women. Men are active, women are passive and lack agency - this has echoes of the past where women had no identity of their own.

To the women saying they don’t want to get married, they’re already in a committed, loving relationship & marriage offers no benefits, I ask this:

Do you realise in the event of your dp’s death, you are not considered next of kin?

All funeral arrangements will be the responsibility of his parents, siblings or older children. You have no legal right to insist on services and ceremonies your dp may have wanted but which may be at odds with his family’s outlook.

This may not be an issue if your dp remains close to his family and you all get along well. But if there’s any history of disagreement or ill-will between you and them then you’ll be elbowed out the way pretty sharpish.

The same, of course, applies to you. Are you happy for your grieving dp to be legally sidelined in the event of you suffering a serious illness which incapacitates you, may require a decision to switch off life support or funeral arrangements? If you really love your dp, do you honestly think this would be fair on him?

It doesn’t have to involve any attention or much money. Very cheap to do it quietly.

Sounds like your OH is getting everything for free. Leaves you vulnerable especially with children but hey ho.

My ex and I were together 30 years. Raised three children. Separated and went our own way perfectly amicably. Still friends. Never got married. Didn't argue about money. 😀

Did you read my OP? Did I say all women?

There's no need to infantilise women. Why wouldn't people be able to make an informed decision?

That is not my assumption at all. Women have agency. They can choose to stay, leave, propose themselves or decide marriage is not important.

If a woman wants marriage and the man is already getting everything he wants from the relationship without marrying, there is less reason for him to marry. A few women in that position have posted on this thread.

Recognising a common pattern is not the same as saying women have no choice.

Maybe the women don’t want to get married either.

Yes you understood this post perfectly!

It says exactly that in the C of E marriage service. So yes, in my view that’s exactly the case. Thankfully I fell in love with my DH who shares the same view.

I will be more for specific then. Men in that situation go with the flow, if the woman wants to get married he will do that but if she’s happy unmarried then so is he. It isn’t often the case that one partner wants too and the other won’t. Most people on this situation are happy as they are.

Getting what "for free"?