to think a lot of men will not marry if they already get everything?

[Pinkshocks]

If he is already getting everything on a plate, a committed partner, a sexual relationship, children, someone to split the bills with, emotional support and a family life, all without making any legal or lifelong commitment, why would he change anything?

I know this does NOT apply to every couple or to ALL men. Some people genuinely do not want to marry and both are happy with that. But if one person wants marriage and the other keeps putting it off year after year, are they really going to change when they are already getting everything they want?

Why would someone buy the ticket when they are already getting the whole show for free?

It evidently is the underlying assumption from the way you talk about women waiting for men to marry them. Actually a lot of your language is very telling.

You cannot know that most couples are equally happy with it. Plenty of women go along with cohabiting because they are told marriage will happen later then years pass and it never does.

Some men may simply go with the flow, but that is still the point. If they already have the relationship, home and family life they want, there is no urgency for them to change anything. The woman may look happy with the arrangement because she has accepted it not because it was what she originally wanted.

No, that is your interpretation of it. I am talking about women who specifically want a proposal from their male partner because that is the situation being discussed.

That does not mean women lack agency or have to wait passively. They can propose, leave, set a boundary or decide marriage is not for them. But none of that changes the fact that some men are perfectly happy to continue as they are because they are already getting everything they want without marrying.

A man once said something to me like why would he buy the cow when he gets the milk for free. Completely misogynist, horrible way of thinking about women.

Glad to report I was proposed to after having a baby.

So why do many women wait to be asked to be married? Just do the asking, get the reply and even if its a 'no' then you know where you stand and have the choice to get out and move on and find someone who wants what you want. The problem for many women is the ticking biological clock if they've already invested years in a relationship and know that there are less single men available, and face the emotional wrench of starting all over again. Men dont have the same time constraints.

It isnt necessarily whether women want to get married or not, or whether you see it as an outdated concept, it is about protecting your own interests legally speaking. The issues arent based on the romanticised view of finding 'the one', the big wedding or the death do us part...its taking advantage of the practical logical legal protections that are there for women, and their children.

I don't know tbh...

I think marriage and relationships have changed so much in recent decades. I think that men benefit from marriage as much as women do, but there is this narrative now that women want to get their claws into a man to take all his money. I'm not sure why people still think this, as most women ime do not do well out of divorce at all. Maybe if they marry someone who is MEGA wealthy. Not like the local surgeon or bank manager, but someone with serious money. But some men online act as if women are just out for what they can get, when the man in question owns no property and earns a bang average wage. Like, come on, you're hardly Jeff Bezos! No need to get all cagey about your lack of millions 😂.

Anyway, divorce rates are high, but so are break ups. I think people do commit less now, whether or not they are married or have kids. I don't think that is a good thing, but I do appreciate that commitment in the past may have been borne of necessity as there was no other choice without causing a scandal and / or becoming destitute.

Anyway, I am on the fence about your op. I can see an argument for not moving in or having kids with someone till you are married. But people so rarely do that now. It would be a niche dating pool.

It isn’t a case of infantilising women. Many of them simply don’t realise. The myth of ‘common law wife’ still persists, they think they hold a status that legally doesn’t exist.

My former neighbour lost her dp. His parents stepped in and she was completely sidelined in funeral arrangements, acknowledged by one line in the eulogy (delivered by his sister) as the mother of their child. Former girlfriends were spoken about at length and with far more affection - and they’d all been invited much to the despair and humiliation of the now grieving not-legally-the-widow.

Former neighbour thought she and her dp got on well with his family, but his parents & siblings were clearly not as keen on her as she thought.

Isn't this a rather obvious point?

Men - and women! - who prioritise family life and intimacy and aren't bothered about the concept of marrying will obviously be happy to continue as they are. Why shouldn't they be?

More to the point of this thread, why are you dressing that up in hideously sexist terms like "giving things to him for free"?

If a woman didn't want to marry would you advise her male partner not to give her children or sex for free?!

Of course it's my interpretation, based on the language you've used and your take on marriage.

Why did you choose that angle? Why not men who specifically want a proposal from their female partners but aren't getting one because she's getting all the sex and housework she wants from him already? When he's pining for his big day, his chance to be the star of the show, to get that ring on his finger and be a Mr at last?

The point is not that men should “pay” for sex or children with marriage.

The point is that if a woman wants marriage but a man is already getting the relationship, sex, family life and commitment he wants without marrying, he has no reason to change the arrangement.

Because the thread was about women who want marriage and men who do not. That does not mean the reverse never happens.

Yes a man can want marriage while a woman is perfectly happy with the relationship as it is. In that case, she is also getting everything she wants without making the commitment he wants.

The principle is the same. You are focusing on the sex of the example instead of the actual point.

Women who want marriage sometimes think it offers more security. In reality that is highly debatable, and if the only reason someone isn't divorcing is due to the costs involved it is hardly going to be roses at home. If a woman has more assets and wants kids she should keep them separate because she runs a far higher risk of being left with the kids and no maintenance than the man. Time and again women get the narrative that they are gold diggers because to keep the kids housed they get the home and maintenance. Marriage isn't really helpful if the man has addiction issues or is in debt or a serial cheater (not sure why anyone would want to but some clearly do!). Really if a woman wants marriage that woman needs to be comfortable with speaking up and saying "I really want marriage in the next 2 years, is that on your timeline and something you definitely want?" and hold them to it. 2 years isn't hugely long so moving on after then is doable without having invested all of your childbearing years. As I said though, less women are choosing marriage because women are better off single when you look at financial independence, wealth building, mental health and stress management as well as social networks. Plenty of studies show this now and have done for about a decade.

The poster is focusing on the sex because that's what you're doing OP. Why didn't you start a thread about partners of whatever sex who don't want to get married because they're already getting what they want? Your thinking comes across as deeply sexist and outdated.

Of course they are. i never said otherwise, I was responding to the people who said he love you enough he’ll marry you,

“Right order?”
Its not the 1800s you know 😂

The unfounded assumption in your posts is when you say "the man is getting" and then list children and family life in the things he's getting. In lots of cases, maybe even most, children and family life are what the woman wants and what the man is putting up with.

My question is why did you choose that angle? It's unleashed a tidal wave of sexism and internalised misogyny!

You still aren’t answering the question.

let’s go through a scenario and tell me what should be different…

girl meets boy, girl and boy date, they have a physical relationship and are monogamous
girl and boy try living together, first they rent while saving up for a property
girl and boy save up, and buy a home, they live together happily
girl and boy want to start a family, girl gets pregnant and has a baby

Where did this go wrong??? Was it when she had sex? Was it when they moved in? Or was it having a baby before marriage?

I need you to quantify your thread because otherwise it sounds like you are just complaining without purpose, in which case, why do you hate women?

That is just swapping one assumption for another.

Many men actively want children and family life too. If they did not, they would not choose to have them.

The point is not that every man benefits more than every woman. It is that when one partner wants marriage and the other is already happy with the relationship, home and family life as they are, that partner has less incentive to change the arrangement. That can apply to men or women.

I chose that angle because women post about this exact scenario regularly. They want marriage, their male partner keeps putting it off, and years later they are asking whether he will ever propose.

That does not mean all women want marriage or all men avoid it. It means I was discussing a specific pattern that comes up repeatedly. Calling it internalised misogyny does not address the point being made.

Women in that exact scenario have posted on this thread.

So if you think it all applies to women and men why is your thread title "to think a lot of MEN...." and why is the opening line of your first post "If HE is already getting everything on a plate"?

What if she is the main breadwinner?

This is all so depressingly transactional. Talking about love and marriage like it's the same as swapping properties and hotels in a Monopoly deal.

I don't believe most people conceptualise their lives and life choices like this

Whatever you do, know your rights. There are legal advantages to being married in terms of divorce, wills, inheritance.

I think if you have children together, happy and settled it is short sighted not getting married. Marriage offers protection should the worst happen and one of you passes away, this is the very least reason you should marry.