AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

[MyCyanAnt]

I can’t be the only one who has noticed this. I went to genuinely average comprehensive schools and had parents who just dgaf like most in UK. I went to medical school where it seemed like this upbringing put you in a small minority, now an ultra high earner from own business but still do part time work as a GP. DC are 12 and 14.

Whenever the topic of education comes up with other doctors/professionals they will say stuff like it’s the child not the school who determines the outcome, we’re not pushing DC, we’re letting DC pick their school etc

However when it comes down to it none of them ever put their money where their mouth is. It won’t always be Eton but it will almost always be either a private, grammar or high performing comp in expensive catchment area instead of a genuinely average comp.

It’s a similar story with paying for tutors and other parents DC being interested in prestigious but completely unrelated careers e.g. Doctor or investment banking who have obviously been guided by parents.

I do the same but I feel like I’m an outlier in that I don’t lie about it, I’m obviously paying/gaming things so DC are much more likely to get a top job. I don’t see what’s wrong with admitting it yet it’s such a sensitive subject with some.

It’s just choice, If I were rich I’d never send my child to private school unless I liked the feel of the place, even if it guaranteed results! I went to an Irish fee paying school and the attitudes in general there didn’t exactly say ‘well adjusted individuals will exit these halls!!!’ 😉

Most GPs with any sense these days are most definitely not partners.

but they wouldn't be there without the hard work.

It's boring to hear about advantage and privilege and ignoring the actual WORK that kids put, but it's easier to blame "wealth" on one's failing I suppose.

parental wealth buys unearned privilege
not necessarily wealth, more often than not it's choices and sacrifice.
Just look at the demographic of the 11+.

Yes you cannot be anything but from a very privileged background if you land in Eton, but that's what, around 250 kids in year 9? That's nothing. Eton is the exception, not the rule.

My parents were bad, but I do not believe my experience is unusual at all. Even amongst my extended family I don’t think anyone is tutoring or attending church for schools, some considered catchment area and that was the extent of it. Seems like this thread has really got to people…

And what is it that gives them the ability to work hard? What is it that gives them the ability to make choices and sacrifices?

It's like the 'bright kids will do well wherever they go' IME, not necessarily, low expectations( particularly if parents aren't high flyers, which child would school expect more of, Hugh, consultant surgeon son or Nat the council bin mans son?), class disruption, peer pressure, poor facilities, teens hormones, mental health. Intelligence does equal motivated.

I don’t understand your approach I’m afraid. You seem to have made things harder for your daughter than they needed to be.

The thread isn't about those people you know though, is it? The OP is describing behaviour of people she knows and asking for thoughts on why they behave this way.
I commented on that as it's an interesting from a social and psychological perspective.
I'm not here to debate the rights and wrongs of what people do, or the semantics. This is a thread about the why.

Lack of involvement and interest will count more than money or class. To throw money at a kid, requires interest and involvement, and while someone on a much lower income won’t be able to do the same, they CAN compensate in other ways that will have a positive impact.

Perhaps your family is signally uninterested in education though if they considered catchment areas then that suggests that isn’t true.

There would be no point in anyone near me attending church to get into faith schools as they all dropped the faith requirement for admissions. Tutoring on the other hand is common despite all the comps being very good.

I know what you mean OP. I think what the parents are gaming is not the school system, but the social system. I also wonder if it's a particular issue with medic parents. The reality is that most med school students come from private or selective state schools - the ones coming from comprehensives are comparatively low. As a doctor you come across a huge range of society and it is impossible not to realise your privilege. At the same time, as a parent and a doctor you are aware not to flaunt your privilege, so you make all the right noises about wanting your kids to go to the local comp, but in reality you're keeping the option of selective and private schools very open but not publicly discussing it.

I know someone who is adamant she will send her kids to the local mega-comp. She herself went to private school and while I do believe that she's open to the idea of that school, I don't truly believe she will end up sending her kids there. And if she does (as someone who went to an underperforming comp) I'd be very surprised. I don't think she really understands what it means to be a kid lost in a school with many greater priorities than getting a 6 up to a 7 or encouraging little Johnny it's worth persevering with trombone to get his grade 5.

Just another middle class bashing thread. 🥱

Why don't you just focus on your own marvellous life OP rather than bitching about what other people are doing with their kids?

I mean who would actually deliberately opt to send their kids to the shittest school possible?

Get a grip.

Sadly in some schools it’s not a tiny proportion. In the school where I invigilate many DC turn up having had no breakfast or breakfast is a packet of chocolate biscuits. School staff are dealing with quite a few parents who make no effort at all to get their DC into school for exams. We’ve even had some keep their 16 year olds off school on a Friday when they’ve gone away for a weekend and the DC has missed a GCSE exam

So what do you think i should have done? Gone against admissions rules and rented a cheap house in town and pretended to live there?

Or actually move house and leave the village that I’ve lived in since I was a small child?

Or send her to private school which firstly I don’t particularly believe in from an ideological pov but more importantly didn’t offer as wide a variety of gcse options as the comp. She wouldn’t have been able to do graphic design or photography gcse which she wanted to do.

I do think going to such a school as the one she went to is good for her when looking at non academic aspects. She’s tough, she’s resilient, she has a great work ethic and I’m not sure if she’d led a sheltered life at a small private school she’d have developed those skills so much. She’s used to having to stand on her own two feet and not be spoon fed stuff. Those skills will take her far in life.

I like the fact she mixed with people from a wide variety of backgrounds. Her current university group of friends (I’d say most people on the course) are all super privileged and more wealthy I imagine than we are. Dd says there was recently a topic of conversation where they were all discussing crazy things their live in Nannies had done. She was the only one in the group who hadn’t had a nanny. It’s a different world. They asked Dd what her nanny had done and seemed stunned she hadn’t had one. I don’t really want Dd to be the sort of person who assumes everyone had a live in nanny.

I agree OP. At University age you can tell that comprehensive kids are actually better than private school kids with same grades, because they’ve got there on their own steam.

The system is rigged, and school should definitely be considered alongside grades when evaluating a candidate.

The average GP is upper middle class and none of what you said is representative of the job.

I do maybe 5 locum shifts a month because I enjoy it plus some education stuff with the vast majority of income coming from own business. Not that it really matters, but I am much much richer than the average gp or consultant.

I am curious to know what your business is that has made you an ultra high earner!

I also agree with what you are saying. Some people may not realise they are doing it and others may deliberately lie.

There is also a reason why children of immigrants are usually high achieving

I’ve stopped bothering replying to this nonsense. Lots of people here are living in fantasyland

My friends and acquaintances put a lot of value on education but I never heard anyone say they let their child choose what school to go to. When my DD was applying for sixth form yes we looked at schools together and she did decide between two, but they were of equal calibre. Of course with younger students it’s the parents who ultimately decide! As for tutors etc it’s to give your kids the best chances - I don’t know any parent who denies this. My kids went to private school and for the majority it required strict budgeting to do so - but they felt it was the best option.
As PP points out, it’s not ‘gaming’ the system, it IS the system!

I don’t recall ever hearing that.

I can only imagine that being said when there was a choice among truly equal grammar, comprehensive, private, single- sex, mixed-sex, religious/non-religious schools in a given area.

Or else the dc had a particular need to want to choose from an alternative some reason.

Otherwise the parents set up the pathway for what they think best.

Noone owes anyone an explanation for the way they choose to bring up their children.

Many, many comprehensive school children around me live in houses worth around a £1 million. They are just as privileged as the many private school children.

I absolutely agree with your OP. Gaming is probably not the best word for this but middle class parents control the narrative and affect the choices. They do it subtly. This line : “they can be who they want to be” means that children can choose any uni at Russel group but not that they can go off to bricklayering course in a local college.
it’s a very clever approach which means that if a child is not academically gifted the goal can be easily changed.
But it does look a bit confusing from the outside, like a game where people hide their real intentions,

They are.

We have a number of educational systems in this country that tend to lead to different outcomes for those in them. I’m not sure how you ‘game’ the system you’re in.