To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

[CurdinHenry]

Article in the Times about this woman who decided to end her life through voluntary euthanasia at 75. Huge outrage on social media as a result as various people missing the point entirely express fury because they think being very elderly will be great fun. I personally don't want to get older than that. I don't ask anyone else to take the same view but it stresses me out that the naive want to reduce choices available to the prescient. Euthanasia should be available to everyone without condition.

I used to agree with this train of thought but having seen the myriad ways that legal euthanasia can be abused has made me do a complete 180.

I agree, OP - good for her! We should all have the right to die simply and peacefully at a time of our choosing, whether we're 25, 45 or 75. It's nobody else's business. I have no intention of getting old(er) and decrepit, so if I want to die in a few years' time in my 60s or 70s, I'll bloody well do it. Who on earth want to live to 100?

How is it chilling to have control of your own life? She sounds like an utterly fabulous person.

I think it’s a fundamentally different way of looking at life for me. To me, it’s not about having the best experience that you personally can, but being around and supporting loved ones, contributing to my community and profession as best I can. Appreciating the best of what life has to offer, nature and cultural experiences.

I’m in favour of assisted dying for terminally physically ill people as a means of ending great suffering, but choosing to go pre-emptively, even if you are a bit older and not in peak physical fitness, just seems sad to me.

I guess what I mean by this is that life involves responsibility and duty and gratitude as well as personal fulfilment.

Saying that, I think I would feel differently if she was 10 or 20 years older and not mobile, even if her mind was intact, and if she was really suffering as a result. But 75 and in good health is way too young. I would feel so sad if my partner, parent, grandparent or even friend choose to leave me under those circumstances.

She was a palliative care nurse, so that was probably something that heavily influenced her decision.

YABU OP.

"Having watched several very loved people die slow, painful and frankly horrific deaths, totally at odds with their clearly expressed and documented wishes,.."

"I’m 46 and if I got incurable cancer or something dreadful at any age, I would absolutely be in favour of this. My Mum had cancer and it was horrific to watch."

I'm 69 and not even going to make these lovely 70s which people speak so happily of, where they will be helping out family and doing fun stuff - I wish I were, too, but two years ago I was diagnosed out of the blue with stage 4 cancer - I thought I was very fit up till that point so it was quite the surprise. I've been lucky to make it two years further and get to know my first gorgeous grandchild, and I do help out with him as much as I can, though he's a bit fast and lively for his Nana these days!

So yes, I am totally in favour of assisted dying, especially reading posts like the two I quoted (no surprise to me, so don't feel guilty anyone who said this or similar!) I was really hoping to be taken out by a swift heart attack, but since one of the drugs I used to be on before it stopped working is known to affect the heart, I've had many tests and unfortunately it looks like my heart is going to be the last thing to go, lol.

I've read this lady's 'last words' and I don't think there was anything especially wonderful about her decision to end her own life.

She sounds debilitated - possibly as a result of post-viral syndrome after the shingles - and some of what she says is fearful projection. She talks about not wanting cancer patients in the last stages of life to suffer but that's not the same as pre-emptively killing yourself.

I support the narrow definition of medically-assisted dying i.e. doctors should be able to medicate people who are terminally ill who request not to be in any pain or distress, even when the medication hastens their death. But the reason assisted dying is unlikely to become law in this country is the concern that if it were passed, there would be demands from people to access it for personal suicide when they aren't terminally ill. The 'civil rights' type argument thar people should be able to end their lives when they see fit is actually a demand for other people to become involved - HCPs in particular - and for the state to sanction it.

This is very well said. Sadly so many resort to horrific and desperate measures @kookieCrumbles

It's part of humane care. I don't want medics who want to torture me with prolonged suffering.

Oh squirrel darling I have a bingo card here which I have just completed HOUSE, because based on your bad faith takes, I just knew you were going to suggest I improve my lot , by getting a better paid job 😁. Honestly, you couldn't be any more predictable, but it's my own fault for showing my vulnerability, which I hate doing on the internet, because of people like you.
Well done pet👍.

It's easy to see how someone could want to end their life even using if they shared your perspective on it's purpose. Afterall if we all live long enough then we simply won't be in a position to support loved ones, contribute to the community of appreciate nature and cultural experiences. All of this can be taken away from you as you age and you can end up dependent on others for any quality of life. What then? There is no prospect of things getting better and many just don't want to live like this.

I also find it strange that so many posters object to the idea that people might want AD in order to not be a burden to others, especially loved ones. I am one of these people and can state now whilst I'm relatively young and fit that I don't want my husband or kid saddled with caring for me for long periods of time. I don't want it for them or me. It's one of my worst nightmares. I hate it that other people want to decide that this form of reasoning is unacceptable. Who are they to override my views and wishes?

Yes, the exact same arguments can be made about abortion and yet this is legal despite some medics have strong moral opposition to it.

Everyone SHOULD have the right to die. There should be no suffering requirement to access assisted dying. Autonomy should be enough. There are a lot worse things than death.

(“Death is not the greatest loss in life. The greatest loss is what dies inside us while we live.”)

I think some people are very naive about what happens to the self as we decline

Agree it's fine not to want to be a burden

But it’s not fine for other people to decide you are a burden, or that you are no longer worth keeping alive after a certain age, regardless of your health. Anyone who believes this sort of mission creep could never happen if euthanasia is legalised is very naive.

So true. People go from life to death without wanting to consider the decline in between. But it’s the decline that’s the hardest part.

75 is not 'very elderly'. 85 maybe.

At 75 and 80 my parents volunteer 2 days a week (1 in a physical role), participate in sport, look after their grandkids. One has had a physical disability since their 40ies and have a very full life.

She is perfectly entitled to feel as she felt, but classing 75 as very elderly is a bit odd.

Age 75 is often categorised as the start of late elderly or middle-old age. Chronological breakdowns typically split older adulthood into early-old (65 to 74) and late-old or late elderly (75 and above.)

Why does that mean you can't have quality of life?

I believe in assisted dying in principal but I'm extremely wary of it in practice in our current society. Even so many of these threads the posts are made up of posters describing others experiences /life's and concurring that person would be or would have been better off dead which just adds to my fear that individuals choices will be heavily influenced by their loved ones and society where it's basically going to be selfish to want financial support and good care and even better palliative care instead of "choosing" AD. I mean an annual offer to end your life after 75 jesus Christ..🤦🏻‍♀️

And before anyone brings up again how it's less risk than unassisted suicide - it really isn't and it's another thing that makes me uncomfortable that people naively think AD guarantees a pain free death when actually the complication rate is quite high.

I have to restrain myself not to write what I experienced volunteering in one of the best hospices in the country, so as not to upset people.

It has certainly informed my own decision about how I intend to die, and it won't be in a hospice.

I'm not sure where people get this idea. Usually medics only treat reversible conditions.