To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

[CurdinHenry]

Article in the Times about this woman who decided to end her life through voluntary euthanasia at 75. Huge outrage on social media as a result as various people missing the point entirely express fury because they think being very elderly will be great fun. I personally don't want to get older than that. I don't ask anyone else to take the same view but it stresses me out that the naive want to reduce choices available to the prescient. Euthanasia should be available to everyone without condition.

various people missing the point entirely express fury because they think being very elderly will be great fun.
Are you saying she was very elderly at age 75?

I'm 74 atm and I don't think of myself as elderly at all and I certainly have no intention of ending it all next year when I turn 75.

There is still lots of enjoyment and satisfaction to be had out of life in one's 70s and much older. And there are
lots of very very active older people in the area I live in. Some of them have amazing social lives as well.

I really find your thread quite distasteful.

It’s not difficult to off yourself if you really want to. It’s your choice.

I'm 71 and very much want to live many more years. I am in many ways healthier than I've ever been.
I knew someone who died naturally at 105. Was a bit too long but at 100 he was up to all sorts.
I'm personally very, very wary of assisted dying.

I’m 46 and if I got incurable cancer or something dreadful at any age, I would absolutely be in favour of this. My Mum had cancer and it was horrific to watch.

She was terrified of having a stroke and ending up incapacitated, according to the article. The article plays this terror down and doesn't quiz her widowed DH on whether she had counselling for this fear.

I'm child free by choice (no regrets) don't have a lot of money, will be relying on state pension and don't own my own property.
I also know lots of people in the same position.
I'm weary of naive people who can't envisage the dire choices some of us will face.

Having watched several very loved people die slow, painful and frankly horrific deaths, totally at odds with their clearly expressed and documented wishes, I am very much in favour of assisted dying. And who did this woman hurt? She chose assisted suicide, that doesn’t mean it’s mandatory. Her life, her choice. All of us with capacity should have the option to choose it. I wouldn’t dream of letting a dog suffer through what my relatives did, it’s barbaric.

I agree OP, it should be an option. Many people are fit and healthy at 75 and many others aren't. No one should have to live in terrible pain with no dignity just because some others are fit and healthy and aren't comfy with the idea of euthanasia. The fit and healthy are free to carry on as they are, but they shouldn't be trying to control those that are living in misery who should have a choice.

Yes but the risks are high of it going wrong in some way or you being discovered and resuscitated and ending up living in an even worse state. It's not fair that people have to throw themselves in front a train, hang themselves or go through some other horrific act when with assisted dying they could go peacefully with their family around them.

I’ve no issue with this at all. This is a woman with all her marbles, who used to be a nurse, saying “nah not interested in that thanks”. I don’t see how it’s anyone else’s business.

I looked up what she wrote and it included “I am not just whinging. Neither am I depressed. Day by day I am enjoying my life. I simply do not want to follow this natural deterioration through to the last stage when I may be requiring a lot of help."
That seems completely rational. I’m not saying it’s the only rational thing to do! But what she does with her death, in a way that hurts no one, is nothing to do with me.

Exactly. Why do some people think they should be able to dictate the narrative of others - even down to how they should die. I always think they really must be the most horribly controlling people.

I'm in exactly the same boat as you. I fear I simply won't be able to afford to live to a ripe old age. The only thing that stops me worrying about the future is knowing I'll be able to end it all.

Gill Pharaoh was not terminally ill. She had grandchildren and a partner. She was not in poor health. She had apparently always had thoughts about ending her life before she got old. I found her case chilling andI still do.

I read about this. She was happy and she felt she was done. Why not go out on a high note?

If anyone wants to kill themselves and is cable of doing do, that is up to them to decide

if someone has enough money to pay a private business to kill them, that is up to them

asking the state to become involved is when it gets complicated

I would rather chilling, sad and her choice than painful, horrendous, desperate and alone .

it's a horrible subject no matter which way you slice it .

I don't know about her case but agree with assisted dying to allow people to die with dignity. My mum is 89 and is unhappy, with a poor quality of life (dementia, partially sighted). She can't do much but is restless and sometimes distressed because she doesn't know where she is. She lives at home with my dad, which is destroying him. She is loved and well looked after but it's all very sad and she says she's lived too long. She doesn't even have the comfort of memories. I don't think she would choose to live like this - there is little pleasure in her life.

Why “chilling”? As opposed to just a different decision to the one you would make?

Just because you are happy and well doesn’t give you the right to declare everyone should put up with shit if they don’t want to. Not everyone has enjoyment and satisfaction. Not everyone is active. Not everyone has an amazing social life. Some people have literally no one. If the GP or nurses don’t twig, they are left to rot. Not everyone has a wish to continue their existence for another decade or two. Some people are lonely, really brutally lonely. People being paid to visit you (carers etc) don’t really fill that gap. Depression and loneliness in the elderly is a huge problem.

It’s really nice that you’re happy, and obviously feel you have things to look forward to. But don’t you understand that not everyone is like you? Cant you find some compassion for other people?

No, I think the lady in question decided she was elderly and done. It’s not a blanket decision that people over a certain to be age should be euthanised. However I do believe that an individual should be able to make that decision. My father who was a vital and physically active man had a catastrophic stroke at the age of 74 which unfortunately didn’t kill him. So he lived in nappies being spoon fed for another 19 years. His heart was strong you see because he was fit. That individual muscle prolonged the misery for 19 years. This man who had a double first in the classics, was vital and intelligent, who loved life, was kept alive as a vegetable because doing any thing else was ‘ unethical’

I have shot horses suffering less.

75 is very elderly, yes. I don't want to run the risk of what people die of naturally at that age. I don't think your distaste should stop me planning my own life.

It is difficult to do it reliably and with comfort and dignity.

How do you counsel someone to get over fear of not being able to speak or walk or feed or toilet yourself? Why would anyone??

This was August 2015
What has made you think about this lady's decision some 11 years later ?

ETA - just seen article in the Times
What made them decide to write about this 11 years later ?

My goodness you class 75 as very elderly! So what are people in their 80s, and ,God forbid , in their 90s in your scheme of things? Obviously well past their sell by date!

The pension Is , or soon will be 67 . So people are classed as officially capable of work up until 67. And yet you think 75 is very elderly???

MN is known to be ageist but I think you really take the prize for being about the most blatantly ageist poster I have come across.