To think Gill Pharaoh had the ideal end of life

[CurdinHenry]

Article in the Times about this woman who decided to end her life through voluntary euthanasia at 75. Huge outrage on social media as a result as various people missing the point entirely express fury because they think being very elderly will be great fun. I personally don't want to get older than that. I don't ask anyone else to take the same view but it stresses me out that the naive want to reduce choices available to the prescient. Euthanasia should be available to everyone without condition.

What? There have been no such posts

A lot of people just hallucinate arguments to rail against on topics like this.

IV euthanasia and assisted dying are not the same process, they aren't terms you can use interchangable and the legal bill and complications I was referring to are regarding AD. With the AD bill you would not have the option of IV. I posted relevant info about AD from my own perspective as someone who supports it in principal but not in practice right now as I don't trust our system and I don't trust people's understanding of it when voting for it. You've demonstrated a lot of people's misconceptions around what is being campaigned for and shows people's opinions aren't that aligned. You also falsely accused me of posting wrong information to support an argument against AD, when actually it was just relevant about the method proposed in the UK and I even clarified in my original post I support the principal of assisted dying but I think people are uneducated around it which is dangerous.

I sincerely hope we return soon to the days when people on morphine self administration pumps could choose to overdose themselves.

You'll have to educate me here on why this isn't technically possible anymore?

You'll have to educate me here on why this isn't technically possible anymore?

Morphine pumps are set so that people can't overdose themselves. Medics who set them so that they could would leave themselves open to be prosecuted if the patient OD'd and died.

It really is.

The difference between assisted dying and euthanasia is not one yet enshrined in law, I think. For me the difference would be that one is requested by the person dying and the other requested by someone else, but Google also suggests it's who is administering the medication. IV drugs are still assisted dying in that definition if the pump is activated by the patient.

I don't see why assisted dying should be oral only, it isn't in the Swiss clinics or other places. If oral drugs are less certain then I'm baffled that they are being suggested.

But even if oral methods are all that is being offered in the UK bill, I still consider it utterly inhumane to allow someone to die in pain when their death is inevitable and they request that their life be shortened, so I would still vote for it anyway.

My understanding is that most of the bad effects you have mentioned are bad only for the onlookers, the patient will normally be unconscious.

It usually is legally defined whether a country offers assisted dying I.e. administered by the patient or euthanasia administered by another like a Doctor by IV. I was simply clarifying for those who believe AD guarantees a discomfort free death isn't guaranteed because of increased complications caused by having to self administer and another not being legally allowed to administer via IV and bypass the stomach.

ETA: I'd also say that the negative perceptions of a palliative care death is usually due to the perception of the onlooker as well rather than the patient. For example you often see people say they couldn't bare to see their loved one go without water, and I've felt this too when witnessing it, but it's our perception as a non dying person that they must be in agony with thirst while not actually their experience. I agree with you the same about complications with AD, I just don't think people should assume there will be no complications and a guaranteed peaceful death compared to a non assisted death.

I do agree with you that people don't know what they are asking for with this subject. I count myself lucky in some ways to have seen a lot of death of large mammals, both healthy and unhealthy. It often really isn't pretty, and anyone who intends to be present at an assisted death does need to understand that.

I completely share your concern about oral drugs.

I get this but maybe it is the lesser of two evils in some cases. It’s not like there’s an alternative painless dying process and death for people with certain conditions.

For sure. It may not look as peaceful as the loved ones would wish but it's got to be better than watching a conscious person die in pain asking to be put out of their misery.