AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

Is the new chair(wo)man Jackie Weaver?

Ok, so basically you want it to be an all-women's knit and gossip group, only acceptable politics allowed. So if there's a quorum that feels the same way, why not just say so? And if people disagree, splinter off into another group.

I mean, both parties have managed several changes of prime minister in recent years. You should be able to manage to find a way to knit the way you want?

I find people who refer to young people with left wing politics as 'virtue signalling' instead of thinking they might have deeply help values that perhaps differed to mine, to be people I wouldn't want to hang out with anyway. And I'd think a headteacher being sacked for being drunk at school would be pretty distressing for everyone involved so would think you were all pretty rancid for enjoying yourselves over it. So maybe she'd be happy to move on to another group?

How many trans people is the chair expecting? How many trans people does she even know, especially in the local community? The media makes it seem like there are TRANS WOMEN EVERYWHERE, but as a percentage in the general population the numbers are so low that they're almost negligible.

So unless the chair has specific people in mind, what's the point? Sure, being explicit about welcoming trans people would absolutely make someone feel more comfortable/welcomed/accepted, etc. But the odds on a trans person wanting to join your knitting group are surely VERY low? So there's no need to announce that you welcome trans people. Not to mention that being trans has bugger all to do with knitting!;😅😅To me that's like saying, "gay people welcome," or, "black people allowed". There's no need.

I am pretty left wing, and I respect other opinions/beliefs (as long as they're not hurtful) but this seems silly.

But surely it always has been if there has been an understanding that men cannot join?

I think I disagree with that. Most women will be sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetimes. Male attacks on women are staggeringly high. It’s not wrong to be wary of the motives of men, it’s how women protect themselves. Always has been, always will be. So many women find women only spaces a refuge for good reason.

I don't think Jackie Weaver would suggest that bollocks,!

lol ‘simply because it wants to be’

Only if you ignore the hundreds of legal decisions proving that isn’t true.

That must be why the Swiss weren't given a referendum on self-ID - despite having constant referendums on loads of trivial issues. Because you don't need democratic consent for changes which are "ethical progress"!

It is a bit late in the movement to consider this now. I would have thought that it would have been pushed from the beginning.
It is not something that you can push back against if the other members are okay with it. Your feelings are valid and it would change the vibe.,
If they want to be inclusive then they will have to invite men too. It’s a slippery slope.

Honestly it’s giving Frasier and Niles Crane and their wine club.

Hail, cork master, the maaaster of the cork

Silly to say transwomen aren’t automatically allowed or silly to say men aren’t automatically allowed?

Interested. Which decisions?

I'm not sure why so many people think that a trans person is bound to be loud and vociferous, and dominate the group. The two trans people I know are quietly spoken and not at all dominating. Which might well have factored into them being more comfortable as women.

I can totally see my trans colleague happily sitting in a knitting group and quietly chatting and making friends. I think you'd get on well.

Name a few of those legal decisions then.

I'm all ears, because there are hundreds of women only groups, so I'm keen to make sure I don't join any illegal ones.

Same thing. You let one in, you have to let the other.

As when a poster's DP applied to join the WI as a local branch did a thing he was interested in. They said no. So he started the legal process given they let transwomen in. And not long later they had to announce they weren't doing that either.

Noone has said a trans person is bound to be loud, or vociferous, or dominate the group.

Unfortunately trans-identified men mostly dont accept that women groups are not for them. Therein lies the issue. You are respectful, they are not. But single-sex is so clear. Regardless of what you, I, or they wish, it can be sex based, not gender.

You’re right, she wouldn’t.

I was thinking more along the lines of assuming authority.

I know.

Sorry, did you quote the wrong post or something?

Silly that the chair is suggesting "trans-women welcomed," needs to be advertised.

Nobody is stopping blokes in frocks from knitting if they want to. OP simply says she doesn't want men in the current group. She's not keen on hanging out with men. She prefers women's company when she's knitting. Are you going to try and tell her she has to sit and socialise with men while she knits?

Yes they have. In fact OP said that earlier in the thread. And others have said things like this: I wouldn't want some bloke mansplaining patterns to me,

You are verging on paranoia. What about the motives of men who book the same flight as women! What about the motives of men do the school run or join a bible study class? What about the motives of men who take the kids to the park where women are also taking their kids to the park.

You literally could say ´being wary about the motives of men’ about any public space or activity that has men and women as a spurious pseudo justification to exclude men.

Where does your sort of justification end? Given the homicide rates of men on men, should men never socialise with other men too? Given that children are overwhelmingly abused (even killed) by their own parents, it is not wrong to be wary of the motives of parents and take all infants from their parents at birth to be raised in state children’s homes??

Your thought patterns are highly toxic.

I’d rather it was women’s only but if the group decides as a whole that men ought to be members id be open to that. It’s the view that trans women are women and we should accept that or we’re freaks that’s gets to me.

I really don’t think they’re toxic. It’s fine sitting in the village hall but what if one of the guys in the group you found creepy, seems overly keen on you and wants to walk you home. You don’t get that shit in a women only group.