AIBU to consider leaving our knitting group over its new policy?

[Solentseeker]

I’m in a women’s knitting group. It started as just a group of friends and extended from there. We meet twice weekly in an hall that has to be booked and paid for and go on trips etc so it has become more formal over time and has a treasurer, secretary, social secretary etc. I and two other friends were founder members but we take a back seat in the organisation now. We attract lots of younger members (30-somethings!) which is great. I (early 60s) love socialising with people, hearing their views etc.

The new chairman (woman) has recently decided that we should announce that we are ‘trans friendly’ and try to attract trans women and non-binary people. Apart from the fact that I don’t know what non-binary people are other than people who don’t sign up to gender stereotypes (most of the women currently in the group don’t go in for nails / make up / fake tan etc anyway so what’s the difference?) I don’t want men in the group, trans identifying or otherwise. I’ve been sexually assaulted a few times in my lifetime, as has another of the founder members. We’ve also always appreciated having a space away from the male gaze and voice, where women can have their voice centre stage for once. I know a number of the current members are also extremely concerned about this new push and would feel pushed out too if any men join.

I have no desire to ‘out’ myself as a ‘TERF’ by complaining or pushing back as it would in their eyes make me a ‘bad’ person and I always try to do good by everyone. I just disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that men should be treated as women because they say so. It seems so seething misogynistic. I’m deeply sad about the whole situation and think I’m going to have to leave the club, because the current chairman seems to stand for things that I don’t. I appreciate women’s rights and they don’t seem to give a fig. What do politics have to do with knitting? Do I just leave? Do I wait and see whether any men try to join before leaving? I can’t be arsed to fight back even though I would have a LOT of (currently silent) supporters.

Just wondering, would you be happy with trans men joining your group? Given that you’re placing a lot of importance on other people’s biological sex

This is an excellent comparaison! People would protest screaming "cultural approbation!". What about gender approbation? I, as a middle aged woman, will now identify as a young black man. The woke mafia will tell me I can not choose to be neither black nor young- but I can pretend to be a man. It's crazy.

That was one of the best of the Covid era videos - thanks for the memory!

Lovely bit of segregation. Bring it on!

It’s the chairperson out for not representing the majority’s views.

I get you.
There is an ease of conversation among women only. When a man is there it changes the dynamic substantially. Men cannot relate to many of the events and perspectives in a female's life, purely because they haven't experienced them.

..and mansplaining is real.

This is all you need to know, OP. Loads of misinformation from loud vessels on this thread, but this is the actual law.

@Marmaladelover has summed up the legal position perfectly, OP.

You currently have a women's group about knitting. If you wish to alter that to mixed sex, there should be a vote.

Everyone needs to be clear that it's illegal and discriminatory to welcome transwomen and not other men, so it's all or nothing.

It's also perfectly legal, reasonable and socially acceptable to have women only clubs on any topic. Many women prefer to socialise away from the male gaze and male socialisation. Don't let bullies tell you otherwise.

Make sure it’s not an open vote so no one is intimidated into pretending men are women .

I personally wouldn't have an issue with this. However @Solentseeker does, so...

You know the chairperson has a habit of spouting off about her extreme political beliefs. This is just another one. The likelihood of a transperson wanting to join a sedate knitting group in the village hall (not even in the pub or a cafe) is probably vanishingly unlikely. Is a trans person likely to want to sit and knit and discuss the bypass or the primary school headteacher?

This is a theoretical. It's part of the chairperson's character to be extreme. Why not try ignoring it and just waiting for her to climb onto her next bandwagon? It'll still just be all the usual members, sitting, chatting and her ranting on.

The Mens Shed concept was founded in Australia and then has been adopted by other countries. I know of some Men's Sheds in Australia that do allow women. Just because I know people who go, not because I am involved with them personally.

And you've missed the point that she'd be open to cis men joining. Just not trans people.

You are definitely not being unreasonable - but I would have to try to explain in as non-inflammatory way as possible why I didn’t agree before starting my own group if necessary. Everyone being afraid to say what they think (when it may be the majority) is not okay.

Men who self id as the opposite sex are still male, but come with extra paraphilias and fetishes, best avoided at all costs imo. We have had to deal with this weird transmania stuff for a decade or more and I had hoped it was on the wane to be honest. OP, best thing is to have a vote (secret ballot so members can vote honestly without censure for wrongthink) and, if the result is in favour of admitting men in womanface, leave and start a new informal group with like-minded woman, just like the old days. Also, don't go in for formalising your new group. Best of luck!

OP is being completely reasonable. You are gaslighting and I am sick of hearing that what women feel is not important and irrelevant.

Please speak up and take it to a vote. You ,ay be more supported than you think

No issue whatsoever. I have many transmen friends. It’s people pretending to be my sex that I find offensive. So many TRAs seem to have a fetish. Transmen don’t.

can't believe this answer tbh

Totally agree with this.

What on earth is "cis men"? Don't you mean "men"?

Male sex pests aren't bothered about craft - they just want to get into women's spaces. They're perverts Janet.

Why can't women just have something for themselves? Once men are involved it becomes something quite different and once the trans ideology raises its head the whole thing goes to shit. If you think men and trans ought to be included why don't you start a knitting club just for them? And then the women who want to can carry on enjoying a pleasant evening with female only company and have a well deserved rest from knowitall, selfish, loud and entitled men after having spent much of their working day and/or life with them! Jeez, it's not that fucking difficult is it?

Having a man in the group would change the whole dynamic. You can say you're happy to have 'trans' and 'non-binary' people join, as long as they are biological women. If men want a group, they can form their own.

I haven’t read the replies so likely already recommended, could you suggest an anonymous vote for all current members and let the numbers do the decision making. We use this for a group I’m part of a simple link online everyone votes then the numbers are shared and that gives the answer no further discussion needed

She didn't say that. She said if it was fully mixed sex and everyone agreed, that would be fine.

But she doesn't agree that some men are allowed to join (because they claim to be women) and others not. And with having to pretend that doesn't make it a mixed sex group, which it would.