To think I should be able to take my daughter on holiday

[jj3457]

Hi everyone. I know some people may not like this, but I am a dad posting, just looking for some advice.

I told my ex I would like to take our daughter (3) on holiday to spain for 5 days with me and my mum.

Now this is where I messed up, and I will hold my hands up. I was dishonest when I told her I would be going with my mum. We will actually be going with my partner who my ex hasn’t met. I know this was a stupid lie but I was just worried my ex wouldn’t give consent for the holiday if she knew who was actually going.

To make matter worse, my ex has now found out that my mum is actually going to Florida for 2 weeks at the time I said she was coming to Spain with us.

My ex has messaged to say that she will not be handing over the passport until I give explicit details about the travel. I know that once I tell her I’m going with my partner she will refuse to consent. The holiday is booked and paid for.

I know I’m in the wrong for being dishonest but I am on the birth certificate and have as much right as she does to take her on the holiday. My ex has taken her abroad several times before and this is my first time.

what can I do if my ex refuses to give consent?

thanks

Op couldn’t just take his toddler to Norfolk for a week if they have a custody arrangement of twice a month one night visits.

He would need permission from the baby’s mother for a week too, if this is outside of their arrangement/court order.

You really are speaking out of your arse. Court orders are court orders. You can’t just do whatever you want with a small child, fortunately for us we have legal protection to ensure children are not abducted/harmed. Disney dads that parent so irregularly are a danger to a child of this age due to their lack of experience.

Agreed. I’d want the contact details of both people supervising my children too! In case something happened to my ex!

You've admitted to lying so it's on you that the trust is broken

@jj3457 - your ex is willing to overlook the fact that you lied to her about who would be on holiday with her daughter. I don’t think you appreciate how big this is - she would have been entirely reasonable to refuse to let you take your dd abroad just because of that stupid and unnecessary lie.

But she is being very reasonable, and offering a good compromise.

You just need to pull your head out of your backside, grow up, and agree to her condition - unless you don’t want your dd on this holiday.

Is it about pulling rank? Happily married here but no way would I let my 3 year be alone in a hotel room which some random person that OP has to keep hidden and someone she sees once a week. I would be pushing it out as long as I could - the older the child is, the most able they may be to advocate for themselves. I don’t really think the OP wants to bring child on holiday anyway, sounds liked hey would prefer to go with just new partner but use the narrative that they were stopped from bringing child, whereas the reality is they’ve made it very difficult for a decent parent to agree to their conditions.

Given your lie, it’s a good outcome now.
Why not create good will by going along with the ex’s request whether you are really comfortable with it or not. She’s not comfortable with you taking dd but she’s met you half way. Now meet her half way!

The fact op doesn’t even know arm bands are dangerous, and swim vests are best for this age group really does highlight he is seriously out of his depth, and hasn’t even done basic safe guarding research for a holiday that is next week! He doesn’t even appear to know the bare basics.

It’s absolutely shocking.

What about the toddler’s requirements for a flight or safety precautions in the room or in a high chair. Or even things like windows - balconies. Hotel staff. Never to use babysitters overseas or the monitoring systems.

My blood just runs cold at the thought of this man child being left in charge of such a small, defenceless toddler.

I really hope the child’s mother says no. He is no way ready for this trip if he doesn’t even know how dangerous arm bands are. His arrogance and presumption are only making things worse with every post.

If you don't want exes involved in your personal life then don't make babies with them @jj3457 .

You're being very unreasonable here. Your DD will be staying in the same room as your girlfriend for a week. As a parent, I would be very uncomfortable letting my children, especially at such a young age, spend an extended period of time with someone I have never met, and it's completely reasonable that she wants some reassurances from your girlfriend before sending her away with her for the week.

You're making this more difficult than it needs to be. What makes you so uncomfortable about her speaking to your girlfriend? Presumably it will just be to ensure your DD will be ok with her - why wouldn't you want this too as her parent?

Surely both parents being comfortable with who DD goes away with is important - if you wouldn't feel the same about DD spending time with a strange man you've never met or spoken to then you're not really a good dad tbh. You're not trying to facilitate a good co parenting relationship here.

Yeah I wouldn’t be happy with dh suddenly deciding he was taking our three year old and a random say work friend or hobby friend away.

Id be like no no you pair go away and enjoy yourselves I’ll keep the toddler.

It’s not even about being an ex it’s some random adult being around your child when they can’t always communicate very well themselves and in this particular case are keeping secrets about the person. Gets you all twitchy.

i had the demand to meet the ex thing once.

I agreed initially until she started pressuring me (via my now DH) to meet on a platform during hand over and she demanded “15 mins alone” with me.

as it was, this was on a Sunday afternoon when I had Masters’s training I couldn’t skip/be late for and the timing just wasn’t favourable. The demand of 15 mins alone with me tipped me over the edge and I refused to meet.

don’t regret it for a second. The woman tuned out to be utterly batshit.

at the time I wrote a long and considerate letter assuring the ex of my best intentions, that I understood her concerns but that I would treat her child with the same care and affection I would hope my son would receive if the situation were reversed. I said for her to contact her ex with any further questions or queries and left it at that.

she sent back an envelope via her Dd who shook while giving it to me.

i binned it without reading. Again, no regrets.

@jj3457 your dp has been with you for a while, if your ex has any queries about her child she needs to contact you directly. You can tell her that your dp has access to her contact details in the case of any emergency, but it’s not necessary for her to have phone numbers etc. if pushed, get dp to set up an email address so any contact is in writing.

I suspect your ex will use that information against your dp and will be contacting her to harass or threaten. Ok so that’s what blocking is for, but better not to even open the door to it if it’s a possibility.

What do you think it is? Work it out.

You are really missing the point. Are you saying if / when your ex got a new boyfriend you wouldn't want to meet them to make sure you felt comfortable and knew who was around your DD?

Surely you and your new gf want to try and be as amicable as possible with your ex to be a united front for DD?

Shes not asking to be involved in your personal life, she just wants the chance to see who her daughter is going on holiday with.

Honestly, it sounds like you don't actually want to take your DD on holiday with the excuses your coming up with for a simple request. My kids would not be going on holiday with an exs new girlfriend unless I had met her, even if we were on brilliant terms. Its not about wether she thinks you will look after her, she wants to know who the other person is looking after her DD! If your girlfriend is a good person she wouldn't mind. If you last, shes going to have to meet your ex at some point as you will be in each other's lives for a very long time.

I think you're projecting here - you have a very masculine idea about control and power play. This may well be your modus operandi, but I think the ex is simply doing what most mothers would do in these circumstances - trying to ascertain that the girlfriend is a safe pair of hands.

It's all very well the OP saying that he doesn't want his ex interfering in his personal life. He should have thought of that before he got her pregnant - their lives will be closely intertwined for the next 18 odd years because they have a child together and she will expect to be privvy to any aspect of his.life that affects the child and her wellbeing.. The sensible thing would be to work at establishing a civil relationship now, which can also include both current and future partners too, so that everyone can act in the child's best interests. Taking this stupidly adversarial and aggressive approach with threats of court action benefits no one, least.of all the child. If the OP isn't prepared to do that he should just fuck off now - it will save everyone a lot of time, trouble and heartache.

And actually I think you can glean quite a lot of useful information from a brief phone call and the girlfriend's tone and attitude and her willingness to engage with the details of the child's routines and whether she is happy to reassure the mother regarding any points raised. At worst,the mother will have a slightly better idea of who the girlfriend is as a person and her suitability to be with the child during the holiday. At best, the mother might well decide that the girlfriend is a better bet than the lying ex.

So you lied to your ex and now you're surprised she doesn't trust you?

She can help however much she chooses - whereW did I suggest she 'turns a blind eye'?? I'm sure she's very capable of looking after a 3-year-old while her Being a responsible, friendly adult is very different to taking on a parental role - when her father - her PARENT - is present?

She's asked for a brief conversation to check she isn't a massive psycho

And she's been told no. Pretty sure a massive psycho would be able to handle a brief conversation without letting it slip. How does it help the ex, exactly?

OK, he takes her to Norfolk for his alloted time and no more. He's still with gf, they still share bedroom, the ex still has no say. Your pedantry changes nothing.

Any part of your life where it overlaps with caring for a child is not purely your personal life. That will include any new partner.

I would want to have met the person who might end up in loco parentis for my child while abroad. Even teachers give opportunities for parents to meet them in person before leading a trip overseas.

What if you had some sort of accident and your gf was left picking up the pieces? It’s got nothing at all to do with “your personal life” and everything to do with knowing the people who will be looking after her child and being reassured that they’re competent adults.

I think the ex is simply doing what most mothers would do in these circumstances - trying to ascertain that the girlfriend is a safe pair of hands.

She cannot possibly know that from a brief conversation over the phone - so the exercise is futile. The gf should NOT be the one in charge of the child's routines - the dad should! It's interesting that people want the gf to immediately take on motherly duties - the child has a mother, and a parent present.

The only reason the ex can stop this holiday is because it's abroad. If I were in the UK she'd have no recourse however much you - or I - feel she SHOULD. Feelings are not reality.

This is interesting to hear. I've taken my DC abroad many times on my own in Europe and America and had no idea I might be asked for a letter or proof they were mine. Luckily it has never come up but I'll be more prepared next time!

OP, when I started to spend lots of time and holidays etc with my now DH’s kids I offered to meet their mum, let her have my contact details etc and I felt like that was totally reasonable. I’d imagine your daughter’s mum would want to know who her daughter is going on holiday with regardless of whether the other person is your partner or not? It may not be a legal requirement, but I seems reasonable to me and wouldn’t you want the same if this was the other way around?

I think it will also be important that your daughter and her mum know that they can speak on the phone while you are away too, if
your daughter is missing her mum - which i
imagine she will. We always facilitate this for my step sons - they speak to their mum whenever they want when they are with us.

Firstly, unless your ex has met the new lady, I wouldn’t even dream of taking a child on holiday with someone they don’t know.
Secondly, you lied, so I wouldn’t agree to leave my child with someone who lies about important matters concerning my child’s care.
Your ex has every legitimate reason not to agree to that.

If I was about to go on holiday with another woman’s child, a woman who has never met me, I would completely understand why she wanted some direct communication with me and I would willingly reassure her / enable her to feel reassured.

Then why did you not tell her in the first place? As you say, that is where you messed up. I disagree that you won't get much suppirt on here, that is wrong. Dad's have rights and children deserve active dads in their lives but lying never helps anyone. You need to come clean. And other mums, stop depriving children of time with their dads. If you don't like it, tough. Apparently it was fine for the child to go abroad on holiday with mum, why not dad?