To think I should be able to take my daughter on holiday

[jj3457]

Hi everyone. I know some people may not like this, but I am a dad posting, just looking for some advice.

I told my ex I would like to take our daughter (3) on holiday to spain for 5 days with me and my mum.

Now this is where I messed up, and I will hold my hands up. I was dishonest when I told her I would be going with my mum. We will actually be going with my partner who my ex hasn’t met. I know this was a stupid lie but I was just worried my ex wouldn’t give consent for the holiday if she knew who was actually going.

To make matter worse, my ex has now found out that my mum is actually going to Florida for 2 weeks at the time I said she was coming to Spain with us.

My ex has messaged to say that she will not be handing over the passport until I give explicit details about the travel. I know that once I tell her I’m going with my partner she will refuse to consent. The holiday is booked and paid for.

I know I’m in the wrong for being dishonest but I am on the birth certificate and have as much right as she does to take her on the holiday. My ex has taken her abroad several times before and this is my first time.

what can I do if my ex refuses to give consent?

thanks

Well she has a right to know who her 3 year old daughter is going on holiday with!

They always describe the ex as “difficult” don’t they?
Under the circumstances described here, I’d say the ex was rightfully worried for her child because the father has lied and tried to manipulate and is wanting to take a child that he sees infrequently abroad with a person that the ex has never met.
Asking questions about the situation makes her a good parent, not difficult.

Agree. SO many posters are refusing to understand that it's not the fact the gf is going, it's the fact that GF IS A STRANGER and that he wasn't planning to let the mum know who her daughter was even WITH! It's the lying and the withholding and the deceit and the fact that NO GOOD PARENT would be happy with this. The child is THREE and he wants to take her to a foreign country with someone who is a total stranger in a caregiving role? Completely ridiculous. When people compare it to a situation where the mother is taking a partner, they are not drawing an even comparison. Plus there's the fact that the mother is the main parent and actually knows what the fuck she's doing!

Don't you sound lovely. 🙄
The mother has every right to know the details of a trip her ex wants to take their child on out of country.
OP does not need to become adversarial. It does not do anyone any good - especially their young child.
And your legal knowledge is lacking. 🤦‍♀️

I'm afraid I would be with your ex here. In fact, if my ex had done this to me, I would not be handing over the passport at all (irrespective of what information you then gave me, because I would not trust you). If the child is only 3, I'm assuming you haven't been separated from your ex and with your partner that long. So, why are you even taking your young child on a holiday with a partner you haven't been with that long? Can you not manage your child on your own? Do you not want the opportunity to develop a relationship one-on-one with your child?

I’m going to guess that you’ve never taken a DC out of the country alone? I’ve been asked for a letter from DH at Eurotunnel (British border agents before French), I’ve been asked for a letter from DH arriving in Rome, Lisbon, the US and Canada. I’ve been asked for proof that my children are mine and I had permission returning to Gatwick more than once.

So yes, he does need permission. Just as she needs his permission. He may decide to use this incident to refuse future travel for his ex and that’s his right too.

You need to move to be much closer to your child op, if distance is preventing you to parent her properly.

You could also have her mid week. All working parents follow the same routine mid week. Spending more time with her will increase the likelihood of doing holidays etc together in the future. I assume her mother collects her from nursery and baths and puts her to bed - you could easily do the same week during a working week.

he knew is ex well enough to know she would say no.

80% of posters on here would say no too.

So if both parents have PR then they each need permission from the other to take the DD abroad. So the ex also will require OPs permission.
However you can get a CAO that gives permission for holidays up to a period of time and then the OP wouldnt need permission. So OP could just as easily apply for one of these. And most likely would be granted as it would be reasonable for a court to allow a DC to go on holiday with the parent who does have some overnights. This would likely be granted even for a young child.

None of this excuses the lies. But just as OP could move in with his gf tomorrow and wouldn't need permission or to inform ex, if he had a CAO granting holiday then he wouldn't need that either. Morally I'd agree but my ex moved in with his now wife and my kids were there 50 50 and I'd never even met her. Nothing I could do about it. There's no court in the land that would stop that.

She hasn’t even said no at this point, he’s just predicting she might! She’s asked for full details after originally agreeing to him going with his mum, so she’s clearly not that unreasonable. This seems more than fair considering she’s found out at nearly the last minute that she’s been lied to.

Well you tell her the truth and apologise and tell her you will a ide by her decision. Not much else you can do. What's the other option - lie again? If she's not allowed to go accept this is because you haven't been truthful. After that lie I wouldn't be handing DD over. You will need to put some serious work in to be allowed to do so next year.

In theory i agree you have as much right to take your daughter on holiday (without knowing your specific situation) but the lying about your mum going was completely wrong and with have seriously dented the trust your ex has in you. Now she doesn’t know what she can and cannot believe. You need to find a way to regain trust.

You'd have no choice. You don't get to call the shots about decisions the other parent makes when they have their child - and you have absolutely zero entitlement to meet the gf, ever.

If OP takes this to court, unless you can demonstrate a legitimate safeguarding risk, he will almost certainly be granted permission to take her and you will be legally compelled to 'allow' it. Your stance that you don't know the gf would be given no consideration.

It’s mind boggling how many people think a court is going to refuse a father a holiday because he lied about his girlfriend of 18 months going with them. It’s immoral but not illegal. Yea the ex could stop this holiday by calling border control and saying she doesn’t give consent but ultimately he could apply for holidays to be written into the contact setup and he’s under absolutely zero obligation to declare who those future holidays are with. He’s the kids dad no matter what age she is! This thread is delusional,
I suspect full of mums who have never had to coparent and naively think of they separated the dad would just disappear into a corner and do as they’re told. Doesn’t work like that!

Take a long-term view here. Just go on holiday with your girlfriend and without your DD so the holiday isn't wasted. Then when you're back do some really nice days out with your DD in this country to compensate. Then work on rebuilding the trust with your DD's mum. In a few years time plan something similar but be open and transparent and make sure DD's mum is happy with the plans. Kids don't remember much from age 3 anyhow, so you'll have plenty of years to make those memories with your DD.

The way that you told the lie about your mother coming on the holiday says something about how you thought the plan wouldn't go down well with DD's mum. Learn from that.

The big question is who moved ?

an hour is a long way to be away from your child

if lived closer you could pick up from pre school and school as gets older once /twice in week

yes that means working hours changes and yes as a dad you have that right

I do find it very strange that you have been with gf for 18mths + hopefully actually 2yrs so dd met gf after 6mths

you must have split from ex when dd was very young to then meet new gf and hopefully not meet dd at once

I’ve always said 6mths is about the right time to introduce new partner. You know hopefully that they will be in your life for ever

you say she met dd jan 2025 but when did you meet her @jj3457

and why didn’t you mention to ex you were seeing someone esp after being with them 18mths +

How come you live so far away? Your choice or your ex’s?

You mention your ex is difficult. Mine too. What that means is I have to be even more careful not to do anything that might be viewed badly. Although me breathing is of course problematic to him!

By keeping things a secret, lying and then feeling hard done to, you are actually showing that you are the less responsible and reliable parent.

You need to put your daughter front and centre. Always.

Well I guess all you can do is either go without your girlfriend or without your daughter. Your ex has the passports you seem to manage most of the time barely seeing your daughter so I imagine your choice will be your girlfriend.

Put the bottle down.

Your daughter is 3 and you've been with another woman for 18 months @jj3457. Getting together with another woman when you have a toddler is a bit sleazy.

How do single dads cope then? Absolutely ridiculous that men shouldn’t take their child on holiday.

Wtf. Easily the most delude comment I’ve seen on Mumsnet and that’s saying something

@CrazyMidgeti understand your feelings, however im in a similar situation with same age child and have taken lots of legal advice and the courts position is that holidays are a good thing for the child and that each parent is capable of using their own parental responsibility to judge who is safe who have around them.
things like ‘I don’t think he’ll put suncream on child’ and ‘he won’t supervise the pool’ don’t cut the mustard unless there is a lot of evidence.
The only argument op might have is that child isn’t used to being away for a whole week (if true) and this should be built up ie a long weekend staycation first then four nights abroad then a week once school aged. By school they can expect to be week on week off in the holiday.

however, without court order, you DO need mums consent op.

Oh give over. Decent parents choose to live somewhere close to their DC and find work that fits around childcare. You found plenty of time to date before your daughter had even turned two but couldn't possibly make time for your daughter?

Ps this is a fantasy that courts care about mother having met or what mother consents to. Once it’s I. Court, it becomes what the court consents to and the parents feelings don’t matter at all, and there would have to be really significant evidence of risk or danger for a court to say no to this.