To think I should be able to take my daughter on holiday

[jj3457]

Hi everyone. I know some people may not like this, but I am a dad posting, just looking for some advice.

I told my ex I would like to take our daughter (3) on holiday to spain for 5 days with me and my mum.

Now this is where I messed up, and I will hold my hands up. I was dishonest when I told her I would be going with my mum. We will actually be going with my partner who my ex hasn’t met. I know this was a stupid lie but I was just worried my ex wouldn’t give consent for the holiday if she knew who was actually going.

To make matter worse, my ex has now found out that my mum is actually going to Florida for 2 weeks at the time I said she was coming to Spain with us.

My ex has messaged to say that she will not be handing over the passport until I give explicit details about the travel. I know that once I tell her I’m going with my partner she will refuse to consent. The holiday is booked and paid for.

I know I’m in the wrong for being dishonest but I am on the birth certificate and have as much right as she does to take her on the holiday. My ex has taken her abroad several times before and this is my first time.

what can I do if my ex refuses to give consent?

thanks

You lied and now the trust has gone. She cannot trust you to tell her things that could affect your child.

If your legally allowed or not, I think your missing the point.
Your very first priority should be building a positive co parenting situation to support your child emotionally! Tbh this isn't a great start! Unless there is a history of domestic abuse i think your priorities are wrong!
Presumably you're in the early stage of co parenting? Building trust and working through different situations to support your child's development is a key aspect.
Personally I would be totally honest with her, explain why you lied and appologyse for it. Give all the details for the holiday and be honest with who's going, then you will need to see how that lands!
This could be an opportunity to build some mutual respect.

I'm clearing up the lie that he had a 'secret' girlfriend.

You really aren’t, because it’s very clearly not a lie.

Well she is a secret to the child mother.

You can apply for an emergency order through the courts.
Unless there are safeguarding issues, as you have PR , you have as much right to take your daughter abroad as you ex does. It is also none of her business who you deem appropriate for your daughter to see or be in the care of when you have your contact time. Your ex has absolutely NO say in this or right to dictate who you allow your child to see.
However.... you are a dick for lying and all it has done is strengthen her case for not wanting to hand over the passport. Do you share 50:50 custody? Who is the resident parent?
Edited to say that your ex can (rightly or wrongly) do as she likes with regards to the passport as she has it in her possession. Until you get a court arrangement order in place and stipulate passport access at least 2 weeks prior to travel, you will continue to be in this situation forever more.

Child’s mother is not entitled to know

Please ignore all the hysterical mums on here, your ex has absolutely no right to know a single thing about what you do or who is involved in your time with your daughter (unless court ordered due to safe guarding etc). Of course for the sake of harmony you may CHOOSE to share details.
legal summary of the holiday situation
The starting point is section 13 of the Children Act 1989. Where a Child Arrangements Order is in force that names a person as someone with whom the child is to "live," that person may remove the child from the United Kingdom for a period of less than one month without needing written consent from every other person with parental responsibility, and without needing leave of the court.

There is no general statutory obligation under either the Children Act 1989 or the Child Abduction Act 1984 to notify the other parent specifically about who will accompany you and the child on a holiday abroad. The statutory framework is concerned with consent for removal from the jurisdiction, not with disclosure of travel companions or itineraries.

Could you imagine if the mum had been having a new man around the child for the last 18 months but hadn’t told the dad at all. 😬

It’s just common curtesy to let your co parent know you are dating and have a serious partner you plan on introducing to your child. It’s not asking permission but it’s a heads up that this new person is about to become a serious part of their life on their time and also to field any questions or issues the child might have.

The fact op only seems to assume his child must of told her mother when he was trying to hide who was going on holiday is crazy. I bet this little girl knows she isn’t meant to tell mummy putting her in a horrible position even at her young age.

There are safe guarding issues.
He barely sees the toddler, and she is only 3.
He has lied and has proved himself to be untrustworthy. A court is very unlikely to give him permission given his lack of involvement in the child’s life, and the risks overseas to dc in this age bracket.

Unless you have a ‘lives with’ order or specific issue order then you need permission from all other parties with PR to take a child abroad.

so he does need her permission. Just as she needed, and got, his for her trips abroad.

Hold on a mo. Not only have you lied about who you are going on holiday with, you've also lied by omission that you not ony have a "partner" but that your daughter is spending every weekend with her? Wow!

It’s not hysterical at all. Man who barely has his own child is taking kid abroad but won’t disclose who with and has lied to the mum about who was coming to get the passport. It’s a safe guarding issue. In the real world any half decent full time parent would want to know who’s going.

Yeah, no. My DD would’ve hated this, new woman or not, at this age, and we were apart by then. She would’ve struggled with her dad for a week, seeing him overnight 2 x out of 14 to then be in a strange environment, very far away, for 5 days, let alone with someone else. Plus, lies, deceit and presumably you’d then ask her to lie when you got home. I’d not let mine go away with a proven liar without good reason.

Shouldn’t have booked it without honest discussion first. Go without DD and try a couple of days on the coast, in the summer, if you can build trust back up.

@jj3457

Well, play stupid games, win stupid prizes, my friend.

Can your ex stop you from taking your DD? Yes, she already is by withholding her passport. Is it 'legal' for her to stop you? Yes, because in the UK both parents (with PR) must consent to a child being taken outside the country. So she is 'legally' stopping you by withholding DD's passport and refusing consent. Since you say you have PR you would have been within your rights to stop her from taking DD outside the UK. The fact that you didn't doesn't mean that she can't exercise her right to do so.

I would be very leery of a woman I know nothing about and whom you are deliberately 'hiding' from me accompanying my very young child on a holiday. So chances are I'd refuse permission, too, if I were her.

And even if you say that your ex may be 'difficult', if I were you I'd still introduce her to your gf. It may make things smoother in the future and if nothing else, may look better if you feel you are going to need court orders going forward.

Are there legal steps you could take to force the issue? Yes, but I'm afraid you've left it a bit too late for that if the trip is next week.

Your best bet would be to just go without DD and then plan a Daddy/DD trip somewhere in the UK. Because I'll bet DD's mum will be very leery of any foreign travel after this.

What does the court order say about holidays?

No, it is not a safeguarding issue.

The courts are very clear that, when parents separate, neither has any right to control who the child sees or where the child goes whilst they are with the other parent unless there are credible safeguarding concerns. Demanding to know who is going would be viewed by the courts as controlling behaviour which they would not support.

The fact OP has lied has not helped him but, if he applies for an emergency Specific Issue Order, he is likely to succeed.

She'll be with her untrustworthy dad who has lied and who she has hitherto only spent limited time periods with and an unknown woman. And he really isn't just as much her parent as her mum who, from the sound of things, is the one who has done the majority of parenting thus far. It's all just about as unsatisfactory a situation as it could be.

You should be honest to your ex she might have said yes but now your lies have bit you on the arse also you were very naive to think your ex wouldn’t have found out, dd comes home mum asks how was your holiday with daddy and nanny dd nanny wasn’t there it was me daddy and gf name. Never going to get away with that lie op.

Yes, if he goes for an emergency order.

Considering he’s lied and still hasn’t told her why or who is actually going, from her point of view it is of course a safe guarding issue. Any criminal or unknown man could be going for all she knows. Hopefully he won’t have time to push through this order and instead will have to speak to his ex, apologise for being an lying arsehole and do better to have a civil coparenting relationship with his child’s mothers as that’s the minimum the child deserves.

A man who barely has his child in a Rush to go to court. I doubt it.

A nice story for his gf though to show how horrible and a big meanie the ex.

That’s just all lies and bullshit

I think you might need to take this one on the chin as a learning experience and take your gf alone.

To repeat, the courts have been completely clear. In this situation, she has absolutely no right to know who is going.

He should not have lied to his ex, but he does have time to get a Specific Issue Order if he really wants to.