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To think it's time to leave the ECHR?

798 replies

Sausagenbacon · 16/07/2026 20:05

www.thejc.com/news/uk/gazan-family-refugee-status-asylum-rejection-gwsq2c8b

OP posts:
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9
ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 15:41

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:37

They all do, yes. It's a Labour government showcasing at present. They hold all the cards.

Of course they do, they’re the government in power.

But I highly doubt that any other government would suddenly decide to do things altruistically.

We could have said precisely the same thing about any of their predecessors, and any of their current competitors. Some more than others.

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 15:41

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:30

HR lawyers will already be gearing up to find the loopholes in the new legislation.

I’m surprised it wasn’t factored in but I suppose even Mahmood doesn’t know what immigration courts will decide.

It could put a spanner in that legislation, they won’t want to leave the ECHR but could be overruled on policy.

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:43

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 15:41

I’m surprised it wasn’t factored in but I suppose even Mahmood doesn’t know what immigration courts will decide.

It could put a spanner in that legislation, they won’t want to leave the ECHR but could be overruled on policy.

Yes, quite the conundrum they are presented with.

inkognitha · 17/07/2026 15:54

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 14:51

Do you think the planting of the flags we did back in the day has no bearing at all on the political and economic instability of many of those nations?

And here we go with the colonial self-hatred as an excuse. It is not.

Britain has done a lot of wrong during its colonial past, really a lot, but it's not all what Britain is or has accomplished in its history. And it's far from being the only country or culture who has invaded or enslaved.

But it has put a stop to it, has actively regretted it since and has reflected upon its worst errors and crimes, generating the liberal, progressive, universalist, antiracist pro-human rights vision your views are directly coming from, probably during the course of a UK-funded education. Because you are no dissident, you didn't have to learn about the evils of colonialism in samizdats or read forbidden books in hiding. You come from a culture who has made big errors but has also been capable of facing them, including them in the public discourse, and even protecting by law its most ardent critics, like yourself.

Is it such a bad society for what it is now? Is it better elsewhere? Go criticise the Russian system or the North Korean one or Islam in Saudi Arabia, see how well they will take it.

And repairing fairly historical damage or solving structural inequity does not mean "Let's open all doors and you can all come and do whatever you want because our ancestors did the same to you 200y ago, so we don't have the right to criticise"

Especially when it applies to descendants who have not done anything directly.
Punished for the sins of their fathers, I destroyed yours, you can destroy mine, eye for an eye. That is vengeance, not justice, it's not fair, nor healing.

I am sure you don't hold contemporary Japanese or Germans responsible for WWII or the 3rd Reich, why can't you do the same for British people? Especially that you are the living embodiment that things have changed.

Or you don't want to accept it because it gives you an easy villain to blame, and it makes you feel all righteous to think you're the resistance against evil, rather than being boringly mainstream and a pure product of your environment?

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 16:01

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:31

For their own ends - yes. Did you learn nothing from Burnham the ego?

So they are listening to you, despite your claim they weren’t?

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 16:08

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 14:51

Do you think the planting of the flags we did back in the day has no bearing at all on the political and economic instability of many of those nations?

I can’t see this working for the electorate. If we replicate the 260k Gazans with other countries it would be so incredibly high.

AutumnHazel · 17/07/2026 16:16

inkognitha · 17/07/2026 15:54

And here we go with the colonial self-hatred as an excuse. It is not.

Britain has done a lot of wrong during its colonial past, really a lot, but it's not all what Britain is or has accomplished in its history. And it's far from being the only country or culture who has invaded or enslaved.

But it has put a stop to it, has actively regretted it since and has reflected upon its worst errors and crimes, generating the liberal, progressive, universalist, antiracist pro-human rights vision your views are directly coming from, probably during the course of a UK-funded education. Because you are no dissident, you didn't have to learn about the evils of colonialism in samizdats or read forbidden books in hiding. You come from a culture who has made big errors but has also been capable of facing them, including them in the public discourse, and even protecting by law its most ardent critics, like yourself.

Is it such a bad society for what it is now? Is it better elsewhere? Go criticise the Russian system or the North Korean one or Islam in Saudi Arabia, see how well they will take it.

And repairing fairly historical damage or solving structural inequity does not mean "Let's open all doors and you can all come and do whatever you want because our ancestors did the same to you 200y ago, so we don't have the right to criticise"

Especially when it applies to descendants who have not done anything directly.
Punished for the sins of their fathers, I destroyed yours, you can destroy mine, eye for an eye. That is vengeance, not justice, it's not fair, nor healing.

I am sure you don't hold contemporary Japanese or Germans responsible for WWII or the 3rd Reich, why can't you do the same for British people? Especially that you are the living embodiment that things have changed.

Or you don't want to accept it because it gives you an easy villain to blame, and it makes you feel all righteous to think you're the resistance against evil, rather than being boringly mainstream and a pure product of your environment?

This 💯.

Besides, Israel / Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire historically, and the UK only stepped in in 1918 to avoid a power vacuum and chaos. We exited when we could in 1947, after the UN agreed borders for Israel and Palestine. To say that we are responsible for bloodshed in 2026 is preposterous

suburburban · 17/07/2026 16:17

inkognitha · 17/07/2026 15:54

And here we go with the colonial self-hatred as an excuse. It is not.

Britain has done a lot of wrong during its colonial past, really a lot, but it's not all what Britain is or has accomplished in its history. And it's far from being the only country or culture who has invaded or enslaved.

But it has put a stop to it, has actively regretted it since and has reflected upon its worst errors and crimes, generating the liberal, progressive, universalist, antiracist pro-human rights vision your views are directly coming from, probably during the course of a UK-funded education. Because you are no dissident, you didn't have to learn about the evils of colonialism in samizdats or read forbidden books in hiding. You come from a culture who has made big errors but has also been capable of facing them, including them in the public discourse, and even protecting by law its most ardent critics, like yourself.

Is it such a bad society for what it is now? Is it better elsewhere? Go criticise the Russian system or the North Korean one or Islam in Saudi Arabia, see how well they will take it.

And repairing fairly historical damage or solving structural inequity does not mean "Let's open all doors and you can all come and do whatever you want because our ancestors did the same to you 200y ago, so we don't have the right to criticise"

Especially when it applies to descendants who have not done anything directly.
Punished for the sins of their fathers, I destroyed yours, you can destroy mine, eye for an eye. That is vengeance, not justice, it's not fair, nor healing.

I am sure you don't hold contemporary Japanese or Germans responsible for WWII or the 3rd Reich, why can't you do the same for British people? Especially that you are the living embodiment that things have changed.

Or you don't want to accept it because it gives you an easy villain to blame, and it makes you feel all righteous to think you're the resistance against evil, rather than being boringly mainstream and a pure product of your environment?

Well said

Daafdjdnd · 17/07/2026 16:51

I don't think the average UK citizen should have to suffer at all for foreign policy decisions they did not make.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:32

inkognitha · 17/07/2026 15:54

And here we go with the colonial self-hatred as an excuse. It is not.

Britain has done a lot of wrong during its colonial past, really a lot, but it's not all what Britain is or has accomplished in its history. And it's far from being the only country or culture who has invaded or enslaved.

But it has put a stop to it, has actively regretted it since and has reflected upon its worst errors and crimes, generating the liberal, progressive, universalist, antiracist pro-human rights vision your views are directly coming from, probably during the course of a UK-funded education. Because you are no dissident, you didn't have to learn about the evils of colonialism in samizdats or read forbidden books in hiding. You come from a culture who has made big errors but has also been capable of facing them, including them in the public discourse, and even protecting by law its most ardent critics, like yourself.

Is it such a bad society for what it is now? Is it better elsewhere? Go criticise the Russian system or the North Korean one or Islam in Saudi Arabia, see how well they will take it.

And repairing fairly historical damage or solving structural inequity does not mean "Let's open all doors and you can all come and do whatever you want because our ancestors did the same to you 200y ago, so we don't have the right to criticise"

Especially when it applies to descendants who have not done anything directly.
Punished for the sins of their fathers, I destroyed yours, you can destroy mine, eye for an eye. That is vengeance, not justice, it's not fair, nor healing.

I am sure you don't hold contemporary Japanese or Germans responsible for WWII or the 3rd Reich, why can't you do the same for British people? Especially that you are the living embodiment that things have changed.

Or you don't want to accept it because it gives you an easy villain to blame, and it makes you feel all righteous to think you're the resistance against evil, rather than being boringly mainstream and a pure product of your environment?

“Colonial self hatred” 🤣🤣🤣 that’s pretty funny.

Funny also that you think it is only the past sins that have caused problems.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:43

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 16:08

I can’t see this working for the electorate. If we replicate the 260k Gazans with other countries it would be so incredibly high.

That assumes 260k Gazans want to come here. We have ascertained that’s an ok number of refugees because we were fine with the Ukrainians. But you want 50k, presumably you’d be ok if they were all Gazans, because that’s where the pressure point is right now. Certainly we can take the 18 this case pertains to?

Of the 1.2m who have lost their home, given about 2% of their entire refugee population have applied here on average, we can easily accommodate them within your 50k number.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:44

Daafdjdnd · 17/07/2026 16:51

I don't think the average UK citizen should have to suffer at all for foreign policy decisions they did not make.

What about the foreign policy decisions we are still making. Have you seen what’s happening with minerals on the African Continent?

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:46

suburburban · 17/07/2026 16:17

Well said

You’d rather we blame all immigrants (apart from the “good” ones on this thread, of course) for the problems in both their own and our own country?

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:47

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:40

You really are quite nasty.

Or, alternatively, I’m pointing out facts to you, and you don’t like it?

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 17:49

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:43

That assumes 260k Gazans want to come here. We have ascertained that’s an ok number of refugees because we were fine with the Ukrainians. But you want 50k, presumably you’d be ok if they were all Gazans, because that’s where the pressure point is right now. Certainly we can take the 18 this case pertains to?

Of the 1.2m who have lost their home, given about 2% of their entire refugee population have applied here on average, we can easily accommodate them within your 50k number.

Some pretty big assumptions which no aren’t correct. As said below I don’t think 260k Ukrainians means it’s ok for the public for Gazans, if Labour campaigned on what you want it would be difficult for them electorally.

On it all being Gazans no you’re missing Sudan, Iran and other pressure points especially for women and girls.

inkognitha · 17/07/2026 17:54

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:47

Or, alternatively, I’m pointing out facts to you, and you don’t like it?

Facts like your cousins?

Daafdjdnd · 17/07/2026 17:55

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:44

What about the foreign policy decisions we are still making. Have you seen what’s happening with minerals on the African Continent?

No reason to accept mass immigration from Africa

ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 17:59

Daafdjdnd · 17/07/2026 17:55

No reason to accept mass immigration from Africa

Just to save us all some time, where is it okay to accept migration from?

That list may be shorter.

Xanhi · 17/07/2026 18:06

thisandthats · 16/07/2026 20:38

Be very very careful. Without this framework we would lose

right to maternity pay
right to sick pay
right to notice and consultation if being made redundant

basically we’d be america. Women go back to work 8 weeks post partum and babies die in nurseries they are swaddled all day at an age they should still be with their mothers. Literally just google ‘infant death rates america’. Maybe you want that. I don’t.

We have far better maternity rights than the ones required by the ECHR, so we are ahead of the game on this one.

AutumnHazel · 17/07/2026 18:06

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 17:44

What about the foreign policy decisions we are still making. Have you seen what’s happening with minerals on the African Continent?

How is the UK is responsible for mineral
mining in Africa? Sure we use those minerals, but we are a small
cog in the machine.

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2026 18:25

Xanhi · 17/07/2026 18:06

We have far better maternity rights than the ones required by the ECHR, so we are ahead of the game on this one.

The parties wanting to leave the ECHR are not too keen on maternity rights either.

AutumnHazel · 17/07/2026 18:27

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2026 18:25

The parties wanting to leave the ECHR are not too keen on maternity rights either.

But if the voters choose that party, surely that party should have the right to amend maternity leave law. Isn’t that just democracy?

ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 18:49

AutumnHazel · 17/07/2026 18:27

But if the voters choose that party, surely that party should have the right to amend maternity leave law. Isn’t that just democracy?

Yes. If the voters choose a party who I suspect will limit the rights and opportunities of my disabled son, they’ll have a mandate to do just that.

I won’t agree with that, just as I wouldn’t agree with the lessening of maternity rights, or abolishing LTR. But unfortunately, that’s how democracy works.

Some people vote for abhorrent things, and then we get them.

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2026 18:53

AutumnHazel · 17/07/2026 18:27

But if the voters choose that party, surely that party should have the right to amend maternity leave law. Isn’t that just democracy?

Yes, if you vote in a party in that wants to reduce your rights that is democracy.

Just don't complain when if affects you.

Daafdjdnd · 17/07/2026 18:57

ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 17:59

Just to save us all some time, where is it okay to accept migration from?

That list may be shorter.

Canzuk, USA, lots of the EEA and Switzerland

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