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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's time to leave the ECHR?

798 replies

Sausagenbacon · 16/07/2026 20:05

www.thejc.com/news/uk/gazan-family-refugee-status-asylum-rejection-gwsq2c8b

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:00

GDP stagnation correlated with the increase in the non white British population to 16 million.

The Productivity Collapse

Wages cannot sustainably rise without an increase in output per hour worked. The UK has experienced a near-total collapse in productivity growth since 2008. While GDP has risen broadly due to a growing adult population and more total hours worked, the actual efficiency per worker has stalled, making meaningful pay hikes unaffordable for businesses.

The Data Breakdown (England & Wales)

The census only introduced specific, self-identified sub-categories for ethnicity (like "White British") in 2001.

In the 30 years prior to that, the population was broadly tracked as "White".1971–2001

In 1971, the total population of England and Wales was roughly 49 million, of which over 95% were white.

By the 2001 Census, the newly defined "White British" category hit its absolute historic peak at 45.5 million people (87.5% of the population).

2001–2011: By the 2011 Census, the raw number of White British people fell slightly to 45.1 million (80.5% of the population).

2011–2021: According to the 2021 Census, the White British population in England and Wales dropped sharply to 44.4 million (74.4% of the population).

Over just those two decades, the UK lost roughly 1.1 million self-identified White British residents, even though the total population grew by millions.

Based on official data from the ONS, there are approximately 15.2 million people living in England and Wales who fall outside the "White British" category.
Taking the latest census base and adjusting for recent net migration trends up to 2026, this number has risen to an estimated 15.5 to 16 million people across the region.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:00

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 14:40

'Far' right wing attitudes are that emboldened that nobody's listening to their views.yeah, really empowering.

Nobody is listening? Are you for real? Until his recent hiatus due to being unable to answer questions about his £5m Bribe, security payment, thanks for Brexit reward unconditional gift that he can spend on Ferraris if he likes, Farage has been the most reported and published politician despite having had no political power for about two decades. Reform voters are all over everywhere, bumping their gums about immigration, political parties on both sides are making policy to appease them to the point that even a Labour Government have made immigration front and centre of their policy.

Or are you one of those “can’t say anything, me” because when you say racist things, people call you racist?

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:02

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:00

Nobody is listening? Are you for real? Until his recent hiatus due to being unable to answer questions about his £5m Bribe, security payment, thanks for Brexit reward unconditional gift that he can spend on Ferraris if he likes, Farage has been the most reported and published politician despite having had no political power for about two decades. Reform voters are all over everywhere, bumping their gums about immigration, political parties on both sides are making policy to appease them to the point that even a Labour Government have made immigration front and centre of their policy.

Or are you one of those “can’t say anything, me” because when you say racist things, people call you racist?

No, I'm a person with different political views to you. I can't help what you or others think.

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:03

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2026 14:57

That is not the hard left.

I know it's not.

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:05

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 14:51

Do you think the planting of the flags we did back in the day has no bearing at all on the political and economic instability of many of those nations?

You believe that mass immigration has no impact on the economic stability of Britain.

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:06

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:00

Nobody is listening? Are you for real? Until his recent hiatus due to being unable to answer questions about his £5m Bribe, security payment, thanks for Brexit reward unconditional gift that he can spend on Ferraris if he likes, Farage has been the most reported and published politician despite having had no political power for about two decades. Reform voters are all over everywhere, bumping their gums about immigration, political parties on both sides are making policy to appease them to the point that even a Labour Government have made immigration front and centre of their policy.

Or are you one of those “can’t say anything, me” because when you say racist things, people call you racist?

Labour have had no choice but to listen to the electorate. It's not only the far right who are increasingly concerned about high levels of asylum. Both left and right of centre are frustrated. Not all of course - liberals would have no limits if they had their way.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:11

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:00

GDP stagnation correlated with the increase in the non white British population to 16 million.

The Productivity Collapse

Wages cannot sustainably rise without an increase in output per hour worked. The UK has experienced a near-total collapse in productivity growth since 2008. While GDP has risen broadly due to a growing adult population and more total hours worked, the actual efficiency per worker has stalled, making meaningful pay hikes unaffordable for businesses.

The Data Breakdown (England & Wales)

The census only introduced specific, self-identified sub-categories for ethnicity (like "White British") in 2001.

In the 30 years prior to that, the population was broadly tracked as "White".1971–2001

In 1971, the total population of England and Wales was roughly 49 million, of which over 95% were white.

By the 2001 Census, the newly defined "White British" category hit its absolute historic peak at 45.5 million people (87.5% of the population).

2001–2011: By the 2011 Census, the raw number of White British people fell slightly to 45.1 million (80.5% of the population).

2011–2021: According to the 2021 Census, the White British population in England and Wales dropped sharply to 44.4 million (74.4% of the population).

Over just those two decades, the UK lost roughly 1.1 million self-identified White British residents, even though the total population grew by millions.

Based on official data from the ONS, there are approximately 15.2 million people living in England and Wales who fall outside the "White British" category.
Taking the latest census base and adjusting for recent net migration trends up to 2026, this number has risen to an estimated 15.5 to 16 million people across the region.

Edited

ChatGPT has entered the chat.

I wonder what else happened in 2008🧐 Could it be the collapse of the sub-prime mortgage market after they were bundled in to CDOs and sold on the markets like magic money trees, leading to a near global depression, where banks went bust and millions of people lost their businesses, their jobs their homes etc? We were just getting back on our feet when some prick decided to take us out of the EU, leading to more than a decade of uncertainty where nobody invested followed by the massive own goal of the “deal” which makes it impossible to trade. Then there was Covid which fucked us up more, the war in Ukraine sending energy costs rocketing, only to come down and rocket more when Trump started playing war games. Which one of those things was about immigration?

Incidentally, immigration dropped to next to zero through Covid. I expect you have figures to show how much better we became as a nation during that period?

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:12

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:06

Labour have had no choice but to listen to the electorate. It's not only the far right who are increasingly concerned about high levels of asylum. Both left and right of centre are frustrated. Not all of course - liberals would have no limits if they had their way.

So, they are listening? Or, are they not? Which is it?

KateSixer · 17/07/2026 15:13

DuncinToffee · 17/07/2026 14:23

You are wrong claiming they should seek asylum in the first safe country they reach.

Most do though.

Refugees are also protected under the 1951 Refugee Convention, leaving the ECHR would not change that.

Why shouldn't they? (I am not actually sure you are correct).

But anyway I can't spend more than 90 days in 180 in an EU country and I have a full UK passport.

Why should an asylum seeker from Sudan or anywhere else get the choice to live where they want?

KateSixer · 17/07/2026 15:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:19

Foreign and multi-national billionaires on the Sunday Times Rich List have faced significant criticism from labour unions, investigative journalists, and government watchdogs for practices that suppress the income and job security of low-paid workers in Britain.

Billionaire-backed businesses commonly use several key mechanisms to maximize profits at the expense of UK workers:

  1. Below-Living-Wage Government OutsourcingForeign billionaire-controlled conglomerates frequently bid on public sector contracts, only to pay UK workers sub-standard wages.The Hinduja Family Case: The Hinduja family, who top the Rich List with a £38 billion fortune, faced severe backlash when their majority-owned outsourcing firm, Hinduja Global Services (HGS), refused to grant inflation-matching raises to UK workers. The staff were executing critical public duties—running the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) criminal record checks—while being paid as little as £9.75 an hour, which was below the recommended real living wage at the time.
  1. Offshoring and Aggressive Anti-Union "Rationalisation"

Billionaires frequently squeeze the terms and conditions of domestic workers by leveraging the threat of moving operations entirely out of the country.
The Grangemouth Shutdown: Industrial magnates have historically used aggressive corporate tactics to suppress low-to-mid wage earners. Sir Jim Ratcliffe (who holds dual UK/Monaco status) drew widespread condemnation when he put the critical Grangemouth petrochemical refinery into a "cold shutdown". He refused to reopen it until the workforce surrendered major union rights, pensions, and working conditions under a corporate "survival plan".

  1. Systematic National Minimum Wage Underpayment

many global brands and luxury hospitality operations owned by ultra-high-net-worth individuals have been legally exposed by the Department for Business for failing to meet statutory minimum pay floors.

Hospitality Exploitation: Government investigations into major luxury hotel chains, retail brands, and industrial suppliers owned by various Rich List billionaires revealed that tens of thousands of entry-level British workers were underpaid. Firms routinely used loopholes like unpaid uniform costs, mandatory uncompensated security checks, and misclassified hours to shortchange low-income employees.

  1. Precarious Employment and Visa Traps for MigrantsA massive portion of billionaire-owned supply chains—particularly in social care, agriculture, and warehousing—relies heavily on low-skilled foreign labor. Studies by the Resolution Foundation show that foreign-born workers in the UK are nearly twice as likely to face precarious, insecure employment.The "Sponsorship" Debt Trap: Rogue corporate operators use the UK's visa sponsorship system to exploit cheap labor. Care home chains and agricultural suppliers have been found charging migrant workers thousands of pounds in "visa fees," trapped under debt bondage, and then forcing them to work zero-hour contracts or under the minimum wage. This forced a massive government crackdown and the introduction of stricter enforcement laws to ban exploitative employers from hiring foreign staff.
  1. Socialising Loss: Subsidising Low Wages via the TaxpayerDuring economic crises, multi-billionaires have heavily relied on state funds to protect their personal wealth while keeping workers on minimal pay.The Furlough Exploitation: Over 20 billionaires on the Rich List used the taxpayer-funded furlough scheme to cover the wages of their low-paid employees. Instead of dipping into their personal billions to guarantee full salaries during the pandemic, tycoons like the Reuben brothers and the Hinduja family had the British public foot the bill for their staff. Meanwhile, other billionaires simply sacked low-paid workers en masse under the guise of "underperformance" to completely evade support responsibilities.
DuncinToffee · 17/07/2026 15:19

KateSixer · 17/07/2026 15:13

Why shouldn't they? (I am not actually sure you are correct).

But anyway I can't spend more than 90 days in 180 in an EU country and I have a full UK passport.

Why should an asylum seeker from Sudan or anywhere else get the choice to live where they want?

I am correct, you can check.

You can do the same when you become a refugee. Hopefully that will not happen.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:21

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:05

You believe that mass immigration has no impact on the economic stability of Britain.

I believe that all the statistics have shown immigration is a net positive to the economy in the U.K.

I also believe we could stop immigration tomorrow, deport everyone here who has no legal right to be here and we would still have a housing shortage, an education crisis, a lack of GPs and dentists, welfare payment shortages etc. The reason I believe this is because I live in Scotland where the number of immigrants is less than half what it is in England, a fraction of what it is in London, and we have all the same problems that England face. Our level of immigration is similar to what it was in England in the mid 90s. Back when all of these problems didn’t exist there in the way they do now. Funnily enough, our government blames yours for our problems, because they know they can’t blame immigrants. I wonder what your government will blame if Reform get in, rid our shores of “the scourge” and realise we still can’t afford to pay pensions to the exponentially growing number of old people?

SaySomethingMan · 17/07/2026 15:23

Edited because the post I responded to has disappeared

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 15:25

Mahmood and Labour opposed this decision, they were overruled. I wonder how the same laws will go up against the new hardline proposals.

Will the courts say the same

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:27

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:12

So, they are listening? Or, are they not? Which is it?

They are paying lip service with ridiculous proposals such as getting refugees to pay 10K back, when settled. 40K payments for those who agree to leave. A year's salary for a British tax payer.

ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 15:28

SaySomethingMan · 17/07/2026 15:23

Edited because the post I responded to has disappeared

Edited

I reported it, it was deleted within 4 minutes.

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:29

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:19

Foreign and multi-national billionaires on the Sunday Times Rich List have faced significant criticism from labour unions, investigative journalists, and government watchdogs for practices that suppress the income and job security of low-paid workers in Britain.

Billionaire-backed businesses commonly use several key mechanisms to maximize profits at the expense of UK workers:

  1. Below-Living-Wage Government OutsourcingForeign billionaire-controlled conglomerates frequently bid on public sector contracts, only to pay UK workers sub-standard wages.The Hinduja Family Case: The Hinduja family, who top the Rich List with a £38 billion fortune, faced severe backlash when their majority-owned outsourcing firm, Hinduja Global Services (HGS), refused to grant inflation-matching raises to UK workers. The staff were executing critical public duties—running the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) criminal record checks—while being paid as little as £9.75 an hour, which was below the recommended real living wage at the time.
  1. Offshoring and Aggressive Anti-Union "Rationalisation"

Billionaires frequently squeeze the terms and conditions of domestic workers by leveraging the threat of moving operations entirely out of the country.
The Grangemouth Shutdown: Industrial magnates have historically used aggressive corporate tactics to suppress low-to-mid wage earners. Sir Jim Ratcliffe (who holds dual UK/Monaco status) drew widespread condemnation when he put the critical Grangemouth petrochemical refinery into a "cold shutdown". He refused to reopen it until the workforce surrendered major union rights, pensions, and working conditions under a corporate "survival plan".

  1. Systematic National Minimum Wage Underpayment

many global brands and luxury hospitality operations owned by ultra-high-net-worth individuals have been legally exposed by the Department for Business for failing to meet statutory minimum pay floors.

Hospitality Exploitation: Government investigations into major luxury hotel chains, retail brands, and industrial suppliers owned by various Rich List billionaires revealed that tens of thousands of entry-level British workers were underpaid. Firms routinely used loopholes like unpaid uniform costs, mandatory uncompensated security checks, and misclassified hours to shortchange low-income employees.

  1. Precarious Employment and Visa Traps for MigrantsA massive portion of billionaire-owned supply chains—particularly in social care, agriculture, and warehousing—relies heavily on low-skilled foreign labor. Studies by the Resolution Foundation show that foreign-born workers in the UK are nearly twice as likely to face precarious, insecure employment.The "Sponsorship" Debt Trap: Rogue corporate operators use the UK's visa sponsorship system to exploit cheap labor. Care home chains and agricultural suppliers have been found charging migrant workers thousands of pounds in "visa fees," trapped under debt bondage, and then forcing them to work zero-hour contracts or under the minimum wage. This forced a massive government crackdown and the introduction of stricter enforcement laws to ban exploitative employers from hiring foreign staff.
  1. Socialising Loss: Subsidising Low Wages via the TaxpayerDuring economic crises, multi-billionaires have heavily relied on state funds to protect their personal wealth while keeping workers on minimal pay.The Furlough Exploitation: Over 20 billionaires on the Rich List used the taxpayer-funded furlough scheme to cover the wages of their low-paid employees. Instead of dipping into their personal billions to guarantee full salaries during the pandemic, tycoons like the Reuben brothers and the Hinduja family had the British public foot the bill for their staff. Meanwhile, other billionaires simply sacked low-paid workers en masse under the guise of "underperformance" to completely evade support responsibilities.

Oh the irony of you using AI to tell me something about the Grangemouth Refinery, practically on my doorstep and claiming it has something to do with immigration. In an area of Scotland that has very low immigration. 🤣

You do know that much of what you copied and pasted there is absolute bollocks?

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:30

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:27

They are paying lip service with ridiculous proposals such as getting refugees to pay 10K back, when settled. 40K payments for those who agree to leave. A year's salary for a British tax payer.

They had no choice but to listen, though?

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:30

EasternStandard · 17/07/2026 15:25

Mahmood and Labour opposed this decision, they were overruled. I wonder how the same laws will go up against the new hardline proposals.

Will the courts say the same

HR lawyers will already be gearing up to find the loopholes in the new legislation.

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:31

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:30

They had no choice but to listen, though?

For their own ends - yes. Did you learn nothing from Burnham the ego?

ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 15:33

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:31

For their own ends - yes. Did you learn nothing from Burnham the ego?

… Do you think politicians don’t usually do things for their own ends?

LuckyHazelFox · 17/07/2026 15:37

ChunkyMonkey36 · 17/07/2026 15:33

… Do you think politicians don’t usually do things for their own ends?

They all do, yes. It's a Labour government showcasing at present. They hold all the cards.

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:39

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:21

I believe that all the statistics have shown immigration is a net positive to the economy in the U.K.

I also believe we could stop immigration tomorrow, deport everyone here who has no legal right to be here and we would still have a housing shortage, an education crisis, a lack of GPs and dentists, welfare payment shortages etc. The reason I believe this is because I live in Scotland where the number of immigrants is less than half what it is in England, a fraction of what it is in London, and we have all the same problems that England face. Our level of immigration is similar to what it was in England in the mid 90s. Back when all of these problems didn’t exist there in the way they do now. Funnily enough, our government blames yours for our problems, because they know they can’t blame immigrants. I wonder what your government will blame if Reform get in, rid our shores of “the scourge” and realise we still can’t afford to pay pensions to the exponentially growing number of old people?

The 16 million are not actually delivering anything other than stagnation.

The Perpetual Roll-Over (The Demographic Cycle)

Critics and demographic experts note that using migration to fund pensions creates a rolling demographic requirement. Because those immigrants will eventually retire, the UK must either:

Continuously attract new generations of working-age migrants to support the previous generation.

Boost domestic birth rates significantly.

Raise the State Pension age progressively to keep people in the workforce longer.

Ultimately, while immigrants do eventually add to the pensioner pool, their multi-decade delay before retirement provides the Treasury with the immediate fiscal breathing room needed to fund the current, historically large generation of British retirees.

So one large generation and we have changed the demographics of Britain into long term global chaos.

Limecar · 17/07/2026 15:40

BoredZelda · 17/07/2026 15:29

Oh the irony of you using AI to tell me something about the Grangemouth Refinery, practically on my doorstep and claiming it has something to do with immigration. In an area of Scotland that has very low immigration. 🤣

You do know that much of what you copied and pasted there is absolute bollocks?

You really are quite nasty.