AIBU to ask for more flexibility before accepting this job offer?

[Aabbaas]

Have an offer from a company. Been in my role for years and I have lots of flexibility with my working hours which is key as I have a 5 year old DD and do school runs etc.

Role is hybrid: 2 days at home, 3 days in the office. Office is in a part of London which isn’t convenient for me and would mean commuting for 1 hr 45 min door to door.
Day starts at 8:30 to 5:30 but they have made it clear it’s busy so I think extra hours are expected.

I can only consider this role if they allowed me to work from home 3 days a week and start at 9am most days and theb leave at 4pm when in the office and do the pick up. Then I’d reconnect in the evening to finish work.
Is this an unreasonable request? It is what ai do with my employer but have earnt this flexibility over a long tenure and I appreciate a new company might think IABU.

Keen to hear thoughts

You can ask. They might say no. Would you still take the role if they do?
How much do you want the new job. Will the positives outweigh the negatives? When my children were small flexibility mattered more to me than high pay, promotion or career progression.

But you will always get people who will take the piss (whether they mean to or not) so there needs to be boundaries and rules. Unlimited paid flexibility will never work in every single job for every single person. A job can treat you as human but still need you to actually do the job they are paying you to do. The problem a lot of the time is people want to be paid fully while not doing the job. I have no problem with people saying they need extra time off for whatever it is, but expecting to be fully paid for it while also having others pick up the slack for no extra pay is what builds resentment.

I totally see where you’re coming from, and agree with most of what you say re space etc and of course we need to support each other. The point I was making was generally when it comes to doing the day to day job then women shouldn’t get preferential treatment. By that I mean, overlooking performance issues for fear of being accused of discrimination (think menopause),, overlooking sick absence for perceived “women’s problems” a phrase I hate, allowing women to have first choice of annual leave around school holidays, etc. These are examples I’ve experienced when I was working. Would men be granted the same leeway if they stated they were suffering from Andropause.

I think the best thing you can do is ask but you’re almost halving your office time and that seems like a massive ask. I’d want a full plan of how you intend to make it up - in my work we have a lot of rules about core hours and such.

I think it’s lovely to have the opportunity to work flexibly and work from home and take time off when your child is unwell and all sorts of family friendly policies. But if you’re doing someone else to cover your responsibilities almost half the time that’s not quite fair either. Who are the people picking up around the ones demanding extra concessions?

Men don't even attempt to ask. They can blame their Big Important Job because they don't want to do school runs. It's that simple.

I’d also ask but expect a no.

Well if that works for you, great.

Why would I fight for other people’s work/life balance when (a) I don’t need it and (b) it has been disadvantageous to me in the past?

For men and women to be equally valued in the workplace, they have to give equal value.

I am committed to my job and ironically my employer has to push me to take time off and to have a work/life balance.

But my attitude and my reputation has paid off to the point I’m doing a job that I would never have been given a chance to do otherwise.

But if other people want concessions for being women or whatever, that’s fine.

And that’s why they have Big Important Jobs. They can demonstrate commitment.

There shouldn’t be slack if everyone does their job and that’s up to leadership and management.

you clearly hate working mums. Why do you assume there is slack?? Just because someone is a parent doesn’t mean they won’t do their job.

Surely that depends on what the job is? If a company is open 9-5 and a parent (or anyone quite frankly) is only working 9.30-4 and this company needs to have meetings and things done in those 9-5 hours then someone has to do them once that person leaves for the day. Some things may not be able to be left until 9pm when the person who left early can finally log on.

You may as well ask if you can't accept the job on their 'standard' working pattern anyway. Without knowing the role/industry and things like how many applicants they may have had, it's difficult to say how unreasonable the request is. I'm public sector and it'd probably be fine tbh, but that's because the salaries are shite so generally they bend over backwards on flexibility.

No harm asking. I would in your case. But if they agree, make sure you have it in writing so that they cannot backtrack later on. I know quite a few cases where this has happened. Even if not on the contract, you can have an email conversation where they promise it or equivalent. Just don't rely solely on a verbal promise.

Oh don’t be ridiculous - I don’t hate working mums, I’m the product of one of them. I personally think that everyone of appropriate age and health should be working.

I don’t appreciate any colleagues that don’t pull their weight because the work still has to be done if someone has to leave to pick little Jimmy up from nursery for the umpteenth time because he’s been sick.

If there is slack because someone is skiving then management can deal with that, but apparently it’s okay if they are a parent, someone else will cover.

I worked with a part timer who did much more than the average full timer within her hours. She also had an encyclopaedic knowledge of the jobs. So it isn’t all working mums.

But parents getting automatic priority for everything at the expense of others is a way to foster resentment.

Then why do you equate mums who have reasonable adjustments in place with slackers who get automatic priority for everything? It's bullshit and you appear to have a massive chip on your shoulder.

I said parents tend to get priority over most things. It’s not their fault but it breeds resentment in a team if the childfree have to cover every time there is a family crisis or can’t have time off over Christmas if they want it.

For all I have known some amazing people whose maternal status doesn’t infringe on their work, I have also know plenty who take the piss.

I have no issue with reasonable adjustments - my AUDHD means I have one or two but they disadvantage nobody (actually the opposite).

Why decline it without asking about flexibility? For all we know it’s an absolutely acceptable request and plenty of other people in the team do the same. It wouldn’t be a problem where I work.

Definitely ask OP. It wouldn’t be a problem where I work. In fact it’s one of the key selling points of the business. No one takes the piss as we’re all adults and know what work we have to do and when. If that means logging in earlier or later, that’s fine. They can only say no. And then you know it’s not the place for you.

Likewise I've worked with people with no children who absolutely take the piss. It's almost as if there are good and bad employees, irrespective of their parenthood status. It sounds like there are particular issues in your workplace.

OP, if you haven't yet asked, I'd phrase it like this:

Thank them for the job offer.
Tell them how excited you would be to accept and what you look forward to contributing.
Then start the negotiation. Say that now you have been given the outline of work hours and conditions, you want to know if there is flexibility. In ordeer to accept - which you strongly want to do, you would need 3 WFH days and 2 days of office hours until 4pm, with time made up by working an extra 1.5 hours from home in the evenings on those days.

Make it clear that childcare limitations mean you can't accept the role if the hours are non negotiable, but you very much hope they are as you would love to join the company.

I mean let’s be honest, this is very common…workplaces are far less likely to say no to a parent and risk getting sued.

You can ask but be prepared for them to say no. Unlikely they will be keen to give you 3 days WFH if the company standard is 2. It’s a sure way of upsetting all of the existing staff if they give this flexibility to a new member of staff and will open the flood gates for more requests which may not fit their business needs. Why didn’t you ask at the outset as surely your working flexibility is key for you at the moment with childcare ?

And the people with no children are more likely to be picked up for their behaviour IME.

No problem in my workplace but I have worked in plenty of companies where the managers are reluctant to deal with people when it’s claimed that it’s childcare related.

Exactly this!

It’s been a while since I applied for a job so apologies if this is a really stupid question but how do you get so far in the job application process without the home/office working pattern coming up? Is it frowned on to discuss it in the interview?

I’m surprised too. I don’t live anywhere near London but the business I work manages to make flexible working the norm. It’s not just for working parents either, it’s for everyone. So no one gets pissed off with anyone. It’s just the way we work. Some of these responses are quite frankly bonkers. I’m glad I work where I do.