Is Andy Burnham reasonable to say only a small minority of women object to men being in their toilets? YABU he's right, YANBU he's wrong *titled tweaked by MNHQ at OP's request*

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15830845/Andy-Burnham-men-identify-women-use-female-toilets.html

'I don't think that's a majority view. I think it's a minority view and quite a small minority view, actually. But it is a view so you can't completely ignore it. Possibly they might be women who have experienced male violence at some point in their life. I don't know, that's one way of looking at it.'

It's the usual tag team. Nearly all of them have nothing to say that isn't on "the list of approved remonstrations."

😂

Sorry, but if you mean me you have no evidence that I haven't read other posts or that I don't care about the issues.

This is why I never usually get involved in these discussions on MN. People make massive assumptions.

No, I don't think the wider electorate think this way at all.
I believe that if specifically asked, the majority of people would say they don't believe male people can be women, and that women are entitled to single sex spaces. If asked.
If not specifically asked, I genuinely don't think the majority of the electorate give it much thought.
They are concerned about the cost of living, how much tax they have to pay, immigration, and accessing services when they need them, and the majority will vote for whatever and whoever they believe will make the biggest positive difference, as they see it, in these areas.
If enough people believe AB can lead the Labour Party to improve their day to day lives, or even that he'll improve things locally, then he will win.
I can't see these comments from 2022 being either here nor there.

@Brokentoes85

Good for you. You are welcome to use the mens with them as an ally or create a 3rd space.

Your good experience doesnt take away from the bad experiences of others.

A well known and celebrated "transwoman" died in Belfast last week. People like you lauded his kindness and great character. He was deeply woven into Belfast pride.

Then lots of 50+ year olds from outside the city started telling THEIR stories AND THEIR TRUTH of how he had abused them in a rural town when they were children. He wore lingerie and wanked in full view of them and outside their primary school. He did awful things to teen girls. They were abused by him.
Everytime you spout about how wonderful these men are remember that not everyone experiences them in the same way as you.

You feel safe with them so you go to the mens with them

I didn't mean you personally until you replied to my post, quoting me.

I have no idea what you think about the issue or care about beyond what you share here. Same with any other poster. The 'shrug don't care about women and don't know why there's a prob' posts after 28 pages of women explaining it are there to be read at face value, aren't they?

It is a ridiculous question. Every single Costa in the UK has one toilet for everyone to use - no one is bothered about that.

Women’s toilets are cubicle based - no one can see anything. Men should be more up in arms about trans men being in their spaces given how urinals work.

I think of trans women like people talk about spiders - they are more frightened of you than you are of them. And they have damn good reason to be afraid given some of the bigots around.

Well, good for you! Nice to read that you don't have to "give 2 hoots" about anyone but yourself. It must be cozy up in your ivory tower. I genuinely hope that if you need intimate care when you are so old that you can no longer look after yourself, you will be able to choose to have a carer of the same sex as you.

Perhaps you won't care about it either way, but a lot of women do, and you being okay about not having a choice should not be allowed to speak for everyone else.

That's nice dear.

I care that society has somehow accepted the utterly sexist idea that some men's minds makes them more like women than they are men.

I mean, how sexist can you get?

"Hey ladies, we don't need a word that distinguishes between having a male body or a female one that would allow us female people their own legal, social or political identity because hey, what possible difference can that - being female rather than male - make to your life or how you get treated by society? But my god we sure as hell need to differentiate between people who mostly think manly thoughts and people who mostly think girly ones! Huge difference between those people. Huge. They will definitely need different loos for a start."

Not enough eye rolls in the world for this neo sexist bollocks.

So bored of women being happy to be defined by sexism.

There is literally no difference between a man and a transwoman other than the social sexism each one aligns to.

'I think of trans women like people talk about spiders - they are more frightened of you than you are of them. And they have damn good reason to be afraid given some of the bigots around'

Men who dress as women are like spiders did you really just say that? It's a new one on me.

I'm not 'frightened' of them just, y'know you can't change sex and you can't or shouldn't try to use women's facilities when you're a man. HTH.

This is so tiresome. When I come out of the toilet, potentially to clean up after a menstrual flood then I don’t want there to be any male in there.

when someone spilt red wine down my trousers and I had to strip off in the toilets into my tiny knickers whilst I washed and dried them I didn’t want a male in there.

when I was helping my child go to the loo when they were smaller I didn’t want a male in there

i didn’t want a male in there however they present themselves. I have no idea what is going on their head but I am entitled to dignity and privacy in female spaces away from anyone male

i don't have to be afraid of them, I just don’t want them there

Yes this.

I think if you were being remotely honest you would acknowledge a cubicle is nothing like a floor to ceiling lockable doors. Nothing at all

You also seem to think single sex spaces are only toilets. Every spa or swimming pool changing area has few cubicles and require women to change in an open space.

Women deserve dignity and privacy from men and it really it disgusting to suggest they should just accept what you think because you place yourself on a high ground and resort to name calling.

If you look closer to home youll find yourself the bigot.

Great! everyone who wants a unisex toilet can go to Costa!

Women’s toilets are cubicle based - no one can see anything.

So why not just have mixed sex toilets? Can you understand that a cubicle is flimsy and that some women don't want to share toilets with men?

I think of trans women like people talk about spiders - they are more frightened of you than you are of them.

Please explain how you differentiate between men who identify as women and men who don't and on what grounds you would ask a man to leave a faciility, if you have been told you should respect his understanding of his own identity.

How is this not clear to everyone? How are people not seeing this?

There are women, and indeed men, who never use public toilets. Or hardly ever do. Perhaps because they work from home, or their work is such that they use the kind of bathroom/toilet akin to the ones in Costa or in a house. So they are not affected by who uses a public toilet.

That is very different from not objecting to who uses a public toilet.

Oh here we go…🙄 the thicky mcthinkies who think if you say the word ‘transwoman’ it makes actual women’s natural and inherent caution in vulnerable spaces around unknown men completely disappear! It doesn’t.

I don't think he can escape making a comment.

Bridget Phillipson promised that she would lay the revised EHRC code before Parliament this month, so it will be in the news, and it is politically expedient for a variety of people to ensure that he is asked the question.

I met plenty of 'spiders' in the prison I worked in. Trust me, they weren't in the least bit scared of any woman.

Dudes.

If most women were happy to share single sex spaces with men, there'd have been no need for TRAs to focus on scolding, coercing, doxxing and threatening voices of dissent.

Andy Burnham is a misogynistic fool if he really believes what he said.

Yeah, they really don't. Not ever. The whole body structure is different, even if they have a smaller and slimmer build. You can tell if someone is male or female even if they're in silhouette and at a distance. This is just biology and physiology.

I don't think that spider who posted on here a few weeks ago (until he got banned) about sexually assaulting a woman with a splintery rolling pin would be scared of me.

But I do think he enjoyed the thought of the assault.

These men. Not people...men. Agree entirely with your post though.

Anyone who thinks MN is a proper cross section in this issue has fallen foul of the echo chamber.

None of the polling is particularly clear and the numbers who support banning trans women from toilets is not a slam dunk majority. Interestingly, the numbers who who perceive it as a risk appears to be really quite low, but if you listen to the majority on here you’d think the vast majority of women would feel threatened by a trans woman in the ladies toilets.